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Topic: BPD person who needs a friend with knowledge of BPD

  1. Deckt
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    Deckt avatar
    194 posts
    24 February 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hi Kar-lee,

    I did respond to this this morning... don't know what happened.

    I am definitely not miffed with you. Right now, you're the closest thing that I have to a friend. :( Not because of anything to do with you - you're awesome.

    I'm so tired of trying. The more time that passes, the worse I feel. I know that logically this will get better. I just wish that helped.

  2. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    24 February 2020 in reply to Deckt
    Dear L,

    I just wanted to make sure you were still ok with the support stuff - I know sometimes when I am going through crap and someone starts sprouting helpful advice, I literally want to scratch their eyes out, lol! 😏 But then I try to apply it anyway. Every little bit helps.

    You poor bugger. Honestly, I think the biggest issue you have at the moment is that you are trying to go this alone. Are you sure there isn't somebody that you can confide to, somebody you can talk things through with?

    Sometimes it's great just being able to feel like you are heard, that what you are feeling is valid and understandable. Even just a bit of a spleen vent can be therapeutic!!

    If you don't feel strong enough to approach friends or family, maybe a helpline or something similar? I often prefer to do something like that because it is less taxing than in person, with a similar result.

    Maybe, as a suggestion - stop trying. Just stop, take things day by day and deal with how you feel as it comes along, rather than trying to force it to go away.

    I've had days where I literally narrated everything I was doing (in my own mind) like "I am taking the dogs for a walk. I see a red and yellow bird. I hear a creek in the distance", because it drags you back into the here and now and gives you a focal point to concentrate on.

    Sometimes it was just counting footsteps, or multiplying numbers by 2 or whatever - as long as you are engaging your left brain, it is giving your poor worn out emotional brain a break.

    That's how I have dragged myself back from a total of three mental breakdowns - it really works. But, of course, it takes a little time and concentration.

    Make yourself a nice, safe, regular routine and stick to it for a while - there can be comfort in the familiar as well.

    Don't neglect your body either - make sure you eat at least 3 times a day and if you aren't really hungry, make sure the meal counts in regards to nutrition.

    SLEEP. I cannot stress this enough! Sleep is the universal cure for every malady, psychological or physical (in my opinion, anyway!) - make it your priority. I suggest something with cow's milk and carbohydrates before bed (both facilitate drowsiness) or failing that, there are natural remedies. I've used 'em all! 😉

    I hope this helps at least a little. It takes trial and error to see what brings you relief.

    K xxxxx
     
    1 person found this helpful
  3. Deckt
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    Deckt avatar
    194 posts
    26 February 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hey K,

    I'm still hanging in there. Just trying to take it one day at a time. Something that occurs to me is that one of two things is going on with my ex... either she's out there being happy without me - which is good, because I want her to be happy. Or, she's just as sad as I am - which may be the first step towards her getting help. Either way, I win.

    It's just trying to convince myself that her being happy without me is ok.... you know Songbird, by Fleetwood Mac? "And I wish you all the love in the world... but most of all, I wish it from myself". That pretty much sums up how I feel for her.

  4. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    27 February 2020 in reply to Deckt
    Dear L,

    It's great to hear you sounding a little more like your positive self! You've turned the corner and now you are accepting the situation and seeing the best in it. Good on you!! 💪

    I have had a bit of an epiphany this week - I finally got to have an appointment with a lady who deals with BPD. Truth be told, I had an instant dislike of her (I don't know why? 🤷‍♀️) but that actually works out well, because I won't feel inclined to 'mirror' her in order to secure her acceptance and approval. While we were talking, the penny dropped on two major points: 1) Most of my issues stem from being excruciatingly sensitive 2) Pushing myself beyond my natural tolerance levels (which are very low) results in nearly ALL of the negative reactions and behaviours I experience.

    So, I suddenly thought - WHY DO I DO IT? What motivates me to keep pushing myself until I crash and burn, trying to do what others do without a thought? It's my own view of what I think is EXPECTED of me by society, family, friends etc. And who gets hurt when they try and reach those standards? Me. Everytime.

    As of two days ago, I have decided to drop what I THINK I should be doing and start doing stuff I KNOW is good for me!!

    This includes the following:

    No relationship with another partner (it is too tiring for me to constantly hold my behaviour in check 24/7 - it doesn't work);
    No social contact unless I want to;
    Regular routine;
    Restricted work hours;
    Positive mental stimulus;
    Positive physical exercise;
    Develop hobbies and interests that I can share online to scratch any social itch.

    And, amazingly, after this revelation and feeling like I am actually in control of my own future, it felt like a huge weight had lifted off my shoulders. I don't have to wear the mask anymore or at least choose when I do.

    These expectations may have been fabricated by my own mind as I grew up, but their impact on my behaviour and decision-making has been very real. To excise them from me and give myself permission to be the flawed person I am has felt amazing.

    I am going with it and will see if it is what is best for me. I can tweak stuff as I go along. But, from now on, I will be looking after numero uno - for the first time in 40 years. 😁

    K xxxxx
    1 person found this helpful
  5. Deckt
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    Deckt avatar
    194 posts
    1 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hey K,

    It sounds like you are taking some really positive steps. You are right - the only person whose actions you can control are your own. And you can also choose how to react to other's actions. Self-empowerment is a great path towards true happiness.

    I would like your advise, though I suspect I know what it will be. It has been two weeks since the last (horrible) time that I saw my ex - dropping her at the police station, intoxicated. I have not heard from her. Naturally, I'm worried about her. I was considering reaching out and making sure she's ok. Part of me feels like that is the most "in my nature" thing to do - I have always been the first to apologise and make peace, even when I have not been at fault. But part of me feels like I would just be offering her another cop-out, and that if she wants my help/love/affection that she should be the one to reach out first.

    What do you think?

    Thanks,

    L

  6. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    1 March 2020 in reply to Deckt
    Dear L,

    Hmm...that's a hard one to answer, because it carries three possible outcomes:

    1) You destabilise your equilibrium after going through hell the last couple of weeks...it could trigger you to feel just as bad as you did at the start, especially if you get a negative reaction from her;

    2) She hasn't tried to contact you since you gave her stuff back - this could mean several things: she really doesn't want anything else to do with you, she is too stubborn/embarressed/lazy to attempt to change her self destructive ways to keep you and that means you may become frustrated again because your efforts have come to nought;

    3) She may take the olive branch and use it to try and pull herself together, with the aim of reconciling with you again.

    I, personally, am a 'tear-the-bandaid-off-quick' kinda person, so I would rather sever the connection with someone who has proven to be unhealthy for me, heal and go about not repeating whatever mistakes were made. I, do, however, ALWAYS give people second chances if they approach me to reconcile. It shows that they put considerable effort in and therefore, think our relationship is worth eating some humble pie to keep it.

    Look at your motivation for contacting her. Is it because you are lonely? Because you miss her? Because you think you won't find someone else like her? Those questions are all self-motivated. It's about what she brings to YOU in your relationship.

    Is it because you are genuinely concerned for her, as a friend even and not a lover? Will contacting her help her face her demons and get her life back on track? Do you think your contact and support benefit her in the long run, not just for the alcoholism, but the other BPD-esque behaviours she has currently?

    I think the biggest issue here is that you are always the one who is giving - it's in your nature to keep trying but eventually, there is a price to pay for both of you.

    She may become dependant on you to keep saving her and never really make the choice to stand on her own two feet.

    You will eventually burn out - nobody can continually give their everything to someone without having some sort of benefit in return.

    Now - please forgive my next question, but I think it is pertinent in regards to establishing an understanding of your character: you mentioned that you have been married and are now divorced. If recents events regarding your ex aren't enough to make you consider ending the relationship, under what conditions did you leave the last one? Are there similarities between the two relationships? And, if so, what makes this one more viable than the other?

    (Feel free not to answer, it is a very personal question).

    Anyway, that's what I would be thinking about if I was in your situation - motivation vs benefit vs possible future.

    But being very black and white in my thinking, perhaps your reasons fall in the grey areas.

    Regardless, I hope this has at least given you some different angles to look at. 😊

    K xxxxx

    1 person found this helpful
  7. Deckt
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    Deckt avatar
    194 posts
    1 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Thanks K,

    As always, that was a very considered response, and told me what I needed to know. I can't be the one to reach out this time. If she is to get well, she needs to come to that realisation herself - I'm of the opinion that she is in the too stubborn/embarrassed camp at the moment. If she doesn't know from all of the things I've said and done in the past that I will be here to help her, nothing I can add will change that. My last message to her was "I will be here if you need me. Please be safe tonight." And more than a little bit of my reasoning is missing her, and being lonely. I have to be strong, for her, but theoretically more important, for myself. I am genuinely worried for her, but there's really nothing more I can do, until she's ready to take accountability for her health and happiness.

    As far as my previous relationship goes... there is a lot to it, as there usually is. Ultimately, I was in the wrong. I was unfaithful - not physically, but emotionally, and that's probably worse. Without defending my actions, it was rooted in the fact that we were just not right for each other. When we met, she was 17, I was 21. We'd both had a hard time, and we sort of fell together. When things got rough, there wasn't enough to hold us together, and we fell apart. It's pretty ironic that (from my recent ex's point of view) the main issue is her insecurity over my ex-wife. There's never been any interest from either of us to get back together, and, frankly, we're both happy now than we were together.

    The difference with this relationship is that we have been through a LOT together, and always come out the other side. I love her to bits, and I truly believe that I'm a better person when I'm with her - when she's sober. And (without sounding too arrogant) she's better when she's with me. She's had the longest period of sobriety in her life, and I believe that she can be sober again, permanently.

    Thanks again, L

  8. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    1 March 2020 in reply to Deckt
    Dear L,

    I think that is probably the best decision.

    Embarressment and stubborness, like all uncomfortable emotions, fade with time. When she has worked through her feelings about what has happened and the pain is no longer as raw as it was, she may be able to see a clearer path for herself. That may or may not include having you in her life, so you need to be prepared for whatever decision she makes. She knows you have her back, so it is up to her to take the help you are offering willingly.

    Sigh. Relationships are hard work. I understand your explanation about your ex-wife...I was 18 and my husband (also my first boyfriend) was 23. As we literally grew up together over the 17 years, we both changed. I think that had a lot to do with us breaking up.
    We too went through the most horrible life events (with a smattering of good stuff intermittantly, or so it seemed) so the decision at the end was both a relief and mutual.

    Good work, L - it's great to see you looking out for your ex and yourself while not compromising where it truly counts.

    K xxxxx

  9. Deckt
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    Deckt avatar
    194 posts
    1 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Thanks K.

    I mean - and this could be some black and white thinking too.... it's not just BPD sufferers that do that! :) Either she is missing me as much as I am her, or she's not. And if she is, she will reach out. And if she's not, is that someone I want in my life? Probably a little over-simplistic, but I guess I think that if you need to compromise yourself as a person to be with someone, and convince them that you are right for them, you're probably not.

    Something to stew on, anyway.... all I know right now is that I'm playing the waiting game, and the waiting game sucks. Anyone want to play Hungry Hungry Hippos? :D

    XX L

  10. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    2 March 2020 in reply to Deckt
    Dear L,

    Exactly! If you need to convince someone, they are either not ready or not interested. You've made your position clear, now you need to concentrate on what happens next in your own life. 😊

    (Hopefully it's not sitting in hospital having an iron infusion between work shifts like I am right now!! 😆)

    K xxxx
  11. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    2 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Big Hi and a big thanks to K , but also to deck and to anyone else that pops in talking about this stuff.

    l've had a situation over 3 yrs now , and l'll have to come back and talk about it and ask some things later, read some more.

    But thanks for this thread k , personally l find it pretty amazing that you can see and acknowledge yourself .

    rx

    1 person found this helpful
  12. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    2 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    Hi again.

    Still reading through but l have a situation too and l'd love to hear any thoughts . A bit like L's , actually, to do or not to do.

    We aren't together anymore , l've actually been with someone else now awhile but that's been on hold as she's been interstate 5mths with legal problems. l met ex though nearly 4yrs ago a few yrs after both our divorces and it was a beautiful and bizarre thing between us , but l also noticed things with her from day one too.

    She'd be so full of love and adoration we both were , we couldn't believe it , and we mostly got along incredibly , but she had another side and one minute pushing us , this thing, me for it all , wants to move over, the lot, next she's saying stupid things, ugly, put downs , us put downs , out of nowhere , it usually caused a fight and we'd be off again. l knew nothing about bpd back then. We were on off a dozen times in 2yrs , full of love adoration excitement , next min' stupid things, she was insanely sensitive , paranoid, word twists, we were long distance 70% of the time so a lot of messaging and one word, could set her off, usually nothing.

    She also flipped on a coin, once l was setting up to go over to hers, other side of the world mind you , we were so exited it'd been a few mths since together last , she was making all these plans even cooking , next, we were nothing, she hadn't felt it for 6mths, cancel the trip and l should go meet new women , just wtf , yaknow. Just to name just a few.

    Well, we got back on again , and blew up again. But about 2mths ago we started talking again. l was still her rx , l always had been , will be forever, she can't think or go out with anyone else and we were almost back to an old us. And 5wks, no implosions, she even admitted small things and she's pushing like crazy to come see me, boom. Next minute she said some silly thing, pure insults , then another , another another. next she's pure anger and just talking pure shyt . Well l lost it things got uglier and l told her l'd had enough of her bs and she could go and ummm, well. ! You couldn't cuddle her she'd tell you you had no pride shame what's wrong with you.

    That was 2wks ago . No sign of her or me her. l've felt terrible, l hated that we ended like that , and that , if it is bpd well , l guess l did what she was afraid of, l dunno.

    l've wanted to write to her, apologize, tell her l;ll always care about her, or something. Not to get back , l'm not living like that , but l dunno . Should l ?

    rx

  13. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    Dear Rx,

    One of the main problems with BPD is that any relationship you have is turbulent, with amazing highs of incredible love, affection and connection, followed by seemingly bizarre explosions that come out of nowhere. This causes instability and confusion - which is clearly what you have been experiencing with your ex!

    The main culprit for the explosions are the devaluation of the other person - the BPD person has this beautiful, pure idea of their partner and puts them on a pedestal, but when the partner fails to live up to their ideal, the fairytale comes to a grinding halt. Love is replaced with disappointment, anger and fear - with equal intensity.

    BPD people (emotionally) are stalled at a very immature stage. Think about a young child, less than 5 years old and before awareness of others comes into play. Their reactions are purely emotional. Their base desires are to be loved and cared for and if this is witheld, there are tantrums and anger because their needs aren't being met and this is all they are equipped with to communicate this need. It is not meant to punish the caregiver - it is just the only way they can cope with and attempt to explain how they feel. It also leads to the child coming to the conclusion that THEY are the root cause of the rejection...and so starts the identification of the world in a simplistic way - good or bad, black or white, with no areas of moderation.

    This is exactly how a BPD person works - with the added bonus of the expectation that ALL relationships will eventually withold love and care. This leads to self loathing and esteem issues and more often than not, a desire to escape the relationship to avoid that pain.

    The best thing you can do as the partner of a BPD person is understand what the root cause of the outbursts are - it is purely emotional reactivity in response to the perceived possibility of you rejecting them. They simply lack any other skills in which to communicate this fear.

    For you, Rx, it is about whether you can be strong enough to push past your initial reaction to protecting yourself during these outbursts and see them for what they are: pure, irrational fear.

    The first thing to do is acknowledge how they FEEL, even if it doesn't make sense to you at the time. Feeling understood goes a long way for a BPD person to calm their inner storm and let the rational part of their brain take over. Once they feel their reaction has been understood, they are more receptive to talking about the finer details of the problem - without the emotional tidal wave affecting their decision-making.

    It is very difficult for the other person, because the first thing you do when you are attacked is defend yourself. This is a completely logical reaction in other situations, but logic is not at play here with the BPD person. It is all about emotional reaction and perception.

    Rx, if you think your ex is worth the effort, this is literally the only way you can survive the relationship. (Encouraging her to seek a therapist so she can learn better coping skills is a must, too).
    You can't be a punching bag for her outbursts, of course, but understanding where they come from can help you navigate through them.

    It is hard work and takes continual effort, but if she understands that she will not be rejected but understood after her explosions, eventually the intensity of the reactions will begin to reduce as the fear subsides.

    Hope this helps. 😊

    K xxxx
    3 people found this helpful
  14. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hiya k , and thx muchly fot that. l'm dyslexic btw too so getting this down and into this little box here, might not always ahh, come out all that well put together but hopefully legible haha. You write and explain so well.

    The thing was, you couldn't be patient and understanding, forgiving, that was just more ammo, l'd then get " l wasn't fighting back, l had no pride no shame, l'd let some 5ft woman treat me like that , what was wrong with me , what kind of a man took her crap. Tried many things but her respect would just dwindle to zero until she'd just say anything anytime treat you anyway she want, poking the bear over until he cracked. She seemed to need to pop every 2 to 3 wks, thrive on a good fight , and to even make it to 3 wks usually meant me taking or walking away from or shutting down many jabs and remarks for 2wks of that along the way , and the more she got away with the lower respect became and she'd chew you up and spit you out.

    The cycle would start of with all the intensity , fun and love and most beautiful of times but usually around 2wks , things would just start coming out.again and she'd start falling apart. l dunno.

    lt sounded like she had a beautiful childhood growing up in ltaly , movie like, great parents , 1 sister , nothing bad. But some of her sexual stuff made me wonder though if something else went on she'd blocked from childhood , but l never could find out.

    But she'd had an horrific man run in adulthood, she was 48 when we met. No woman could come out of her past sane , poor thing . But , l'd say too it was self inflicted too, especially her main ex , they managed 9yrs, mainly because he was away 5days a wk l think, but he ended up hating her with a passion , it ended so badly , but it also sounded a love hate as well , exactly what she;s done to me.

    But nah , l don't wanna get back with her , l'm not living like that. lt was just incredible with my new gf while we were , they were ironically a lot alike , except she was stable. lf she can sort out her legal stuff up home , l'd love to give us a good try from there.

    The ex well , our good was what it was , surreal , beautiful , but the bads , man ! l wish we could've closed the book in a nicer way though , for her, hence the letter l've been thinking about. But she did it , and she never admits to or see's it , l just dunno , bpd or not , if she even deserves a letter, maybe she should be writing me one actually. , held account to herself for once.

    rx

    1 person found this helpful
  15. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    But you know k , l've also wondered a million times over the years , if l'd done things differently from day one, would that have helped her.

    Ya see when we met she was living in the states , and we were just like boom , so many things with us , so intense . Well she was ready to jump on a plane within a few days and she pushed and pushed for months to come . But there were 2 things for me , after divorce l was still in a bad situation at the time . Meeting someone local would've been fine , but working it with someone on the other side of the world was another thing entirely especially financially.

    But the other thing was , among it all l'd seen bits of her other side and it was scary ,her thinking , temper , snaps , paranoid, all of it , l just wanted to get to know her more first , As much for her as for me because l didn't want her flying cross the world for nothing or a disappointment or worse.So l stalled for 5mths , it really hurt her , but she couldn't see or acknowledge considering it was such a huge thing for her to come all that way , there were reasons and stuff l hoped we could work out first. Meantime on bad days she'd be running us down anyway , then good, then bad and on and on. but she still wanted to come, she;d push like crazy everyday . As l say l knew nothing bpd back then but nothing made sense.

    But , it was taken very badly as rejection and insulting to her and l got that , but l also knew why l wanted time and explained it all many times too. l also had to cancel her first trip a few days before , ooooo that didn't go down well , broke my heart too don't worry.

    But once we finally got under way , there were other times where l'd pull back , because her other side would come out again so l'd just think just wtf , l dunno if l even want her to come. So my hesitations and hold back was always thrown at me too, and as l say l could understand the hurt, once she said wtf is wrong with you you have a gorgeous chick you love wanting to fly cross the world to see you but you act like this. And yeah , true , but she was also her other side too and that'd be enough to make any man back step, sooooo.

    l often wonder though , did my hold back back then and since , set off all her other stuff and maybe abandonment , self sabotaging . Maybe if l'd just gone for it the way she wanted, she'd be a different woman now , l dunno. But then her stuff came out a day after we met before all that , her ex was perfect , but he couldn't win either.

    rx

    1 person found this helpful
  16. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    Dear Rx,

    Despite your dyslexia, you write very well. 😊 My father and son have the same condition and often struggle to write long explanations, so you have done well, buddy!! 👍

    I actually groaned when I read your detailing of your ex's behaviour - that was ME for the 17 years of my marriage, I am embarressed to say. Luckily, I am working really hard to not be that person anymore, but it is still a source of shame and regret.

    The accusations your ex threw at you about not standing up to her etc etc is an attempt to get you angry and to fight back - to try and get some sort of reciprocal emotional response to how SHE was feeling, to have you experience HER pain. It is juvenile and not in the least way productive, but she is consumed by it and can think of nothing else.

    BPD is all about not being able to regulate emotional responses, including releasing stress and worry in healthy ways. Instead, we push it away into a dark corner again and again until it overflows - and then we explode to release it all at once. That's what the 2-3 weeks between episodes is, a purging of thoughts and feelings that have been lying in wait over that time.

    Regarding her sexual behaviour (and here I can relate too 😬) I feel I can guess that she was into BDSM or some other potentially violent practice.
    This, I believe, is another way to cope with emotional release. Like people who self harm, this kind of sexual behaviour can be a release from mental torment. Pain has a way of forcing your attention into the here and now, temporarily blocking the mental anguish. It can also be because they don't think they deserve to be loved and need to be punished for their inadequacy - it's back to that 'blame yourself because things aren't the way they should be' that I spoke about in the previous post.

    The fact is, regardless of the reasons behind her behaviour, it was still massively destructive to you as her partner and no amount of 'good times' can make up for that. There can be understanding and forgiveness, but it needs to be backed up with her trying to figure out why she behaves in the way she does and actually be aware of the effects on those around her. That takes insight, which a lot of people either don't possess or just ignore.

    I don't think you should apologise for your role in the partnership - we all react in different ways to cope and unless you were deliberately going out of your way to destroy her as payback for her behaviour, you were probably just doing your best to survive it.

    If you feel you need to have some sort of closure, perhaps you could write a variation of what you have written here to me on this forum - explain that although the good times were fabulous, it was the other behaviour that made your relationship untenable.

    Make the focus the BEHAVIOUR and not her as a person and perhaps encourage her to investigate into learning to change it, if you don't think that will add fuel to the fire!!!

    BPD people are usually good people on the inside, like anyone else, who are simply a product of past (often painful) learning experiences and lack the ability to cope with their own emotional feedback. I would like to believe that she did not deliberately want to make your life a misery, it was just a terrible consequence of her undeveloped emotional responses.

    I think you are a good guy for recognising that she was not 'all bad' and this is what makes you feel as though you need to explain things - but she may never understand, unfortunately. Once rejected and the relationship breaks down, she will see you as the root cause of her pain and will (often) sever any emotional connection she had with you to protect herself. Unless she has insight, that means she will not be receptive to any explanation you provide.

    Regardless of that outcome, you owe it to yourself to be at peace. If you think YOU will feel better if you wrote her a letter - do it. You were in the relationship just as much as she was and you need to process what happened too.

    Congratulations on finding another partner also, I hope you two have a healthy, mutually beneficial relationship, the way a partnership should be. 😊

    Your ex deserves that too, but she needs to work on her behaviour to achieve it.

    Kindest regards,

    Kar-Lee xxxx
    2 people found this helpful
  17. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hey k /

    And thankingya kindly . Man l can't believe you can explain things like that with such ease, l damn near needed an ambulance after trying to get mine straight, crooked straight haha.

    l have to come back after some thoughts and tea later. But tbh , the girl l've been seeing could be everything if she can sort her junk , but ex , l dunno , she always said we were twin souls as one , and we actually were, either of us had never had our bizarre thing . lt's just that part of one half use to get the wobbles. lt's not that l wouldn't want us, and l know she would too mo matter what garbage she spits , we've made up many times , but that l just couldn't live the way l'd need too for it to work , whatever that is. lt isn't a happy life at all and just total bs imo on it's downsides. So sadly after beating my head against the wall 4yrs, it's more a kind of what l think is best because l know l could never trust her in that just whom she might be in any given minute , unfortunately . She has the loyalty part let me tell ya she'd take a bullet for me or God help any guys that try it on, So , l'd gladly ride out any storm , because we were first and on another plane again all our own , but l just don't think it's possible. Because she's never admitted or acknowledged one thing, ever , not even a sorry , just a rug sweep til next time.; really l just don't think given her age and past and seemingly still 100% unawareness of herself , it's even possible.

    It amazes that you can see you k , really it does .

  18. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    PS , k did you actually mean the stuff you'd say , or deep down that's what you really thought of the other person , or h ? Or did you just need a good fight , or what ? Does a good fight help ?

    Seemed to help ex , but if l lost my temper it just got too ugly , she was allowed to lose hers but if l lost mine l was just an abuser .

    She often said her ex drove her mad because he'd never yell or fight , maybe l should've just let it rip haha , although l did plenty of times when she went too far .

  19. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    Dear Rx,

    Yes, I completely understand how after 4 years you were worn out - never knowing what to expect, fearing for the next explosion...it is taxing on the other person as well as the one with BPD.

    Your decision to separate ways with your ex was obviously a considered one - you tried to make it work time and time again, so don't beat yourself up about it. You are the person who has to deal with this pattern of behaviour day after day, it is understandable that you would reach your tolerance level eventually.

    Did I really FEEL the things I said to my husband? Yes - absolutely. But at that particular moment, riding that particular wave of emotional outburst. Once the explosion was over and the build-up purged, I was like a different, calmer person who was more rational. My husband knew that he just had to go with the storm until it passed and then I would be back to being the me he loved.

    That's why we lasted for 17 years - he would switch off to protect himself and then resume his normal behaviour once I had cooled down. It was both a good and a bad thing to do - good, because it meant he rarely took my attacks personally or fought back (I am in my element when under attack, unfortunately, so he wouldn't have stood a chance!) and bad because his lack of reaction meant I didn't realise that what I was doing was wrong. I was just repeating the same patterns my parents had done before me and my grandparents before that. It wasn't until I saw how other couples were in their relationships that I realised something was wrong. Well, that and the fact it didn't matter what I did in my life, I was deeply unhappy. I always felt disconnected, an outsider, an empty husk of a person who was only something when I was approved of and accepted by others. I was an echo of the people around me and not a person in their own right.

    I write easily about these things because I have had a lifetime to mull it over. The sense that something was not quite right with me came to me in Year 2, actually.

    A student teacher (who I adored) wasn't paying me any attention despite my best efforts to be the perfect student, so after about a week, I snapped. I was seated with the other children around him, on the floor, so when he walked past, I tried to hurt his foot. He reacted angrily and promptly sent me to the isolation room, where I cried bitterly and actually wondered why I did what I did. I had wanted him to feel my frustration, to see how his inattention was effecting me and not having the necessary skills to articulate this need at the time, I reacted in a physical way.

    Interestingly, another teacher heard me crying and came over to see me. She gave me a cuddle and suddenly I had what I needed/wanted - attention from an adult, affection, closeness. All the things denied to me by my mentally ill mother and mostly emotionally and physically absent father.

    So I learned, from a young age, that if I reacted explosively, I was more likely to be noticed and it may result in the other person giving me what I desperately craved. It didn't occur to me, at first, that I was potentially destroying the other person with my behaviour. It was a simple case of me doing what I had to do to get what I needed, a basic survival instinct.

     
    2 people found this helpful
  20. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    l wonder if it was an attention thing with ex then , although for us it wouldn't make sense because she'd often start brewing when we were on our highs and she was getting plenty of all haha, no worries about that. So l often thought then that it must be the push pull abandon thing, too high, blow us up push me away before she gets hurt if l leave, or something . Did you get that side of it too, could someone you love get too close ?

    l knew her every tone , word , look , where it was going at anytime, but but when they would come you never knew and the why, was a bit of a mystery too , apart from l'd swear that sometimes with all the love and nice things , she needed a fight. But given her past with men and they'd all ended very badly, l'd also thought it was the abandonment self preservation side , feelings were back and just too strong , better blow it up. But l dunno. Funny you say you were in your element if someone did fight back yeah so was ex. People were very very wary of her. And funny to but nah sexually it wasn't quite that standard far far more out there but l'll just say it was very ummm, strange. But eh l like strange haha it's not that it's just that well , it could've also have come from something , buttttt, maybe not.

    You mention your dad , hers was never home either he had a traveling job, l'm really not sure about childhood stuff tbh , we often talked so much , but just never got around to that stuff , nor with mine.

    ignoring her or switching off didn't work l'm afraid , she come poke you with red hot spears 20times. Although it sounded like that was the ex's method but then they blew up horrifically soooo, not sure about that one. Sounded like she stuck him a few 100 times too many to me tbh. Although she doesn't see it that way so l'd leave that alone.

    You know k , on the other hand with your attention side of things , you know there was all the visiting hold ups with us /me, that certainly made her doubt me in serious ways l still couldn't live down to this day . But l dunno.

    Anyway you take a break whenever you like ok , all cool no probs , bc l'm so thankful for the chat but l don't wanna ware you out haha or take up your time, or others here that probably need a chat too. So nice of you though k and l know of if they're only reading , you'll be helping a lot of people round here.

    big huggems , rx

    1 person found this helpful
  21. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    3 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    ps , yeah you are right she usually was a beautiful person too on her good sides , gorgeous and incredibly kind and thoughtful , offering , classic wit and humor too we'd have more laughs on average days than many would in years , So yeah , it was all that l lived for with us and they'd last a week , 2 , even 3 sometimes . She was never like constantly narky and poking , that usually came with her build up stage.

    l am thinking about the letter and thx for that too k , but l'm not sure. l've sent them at other times , she has done things too , but not letters first , replying no prob but not actually going out on a limb and sending something first. Sol'm not sure , maybe it's time she did.

    rx

  22. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    Sorry, mate, the second half of my reply didn't publish! Anyway, here it is:

    I decided to leave my husband after a series of very serious monetary and health disasters that just never seemed to end. It was like we were cursed or something, with every effort we put in, we seemed to go further and further backwards. He had experienced a mental breakdown from the stress, so after I nursed him through that, I told him I was done. I said, at the time, that it was because he never had our family as his true interest, that he lacked inner fortitude, was weak and never saw fit to defend me as his wife. I wince now, as I write this, because I now know that he HAD been the strong one - he had survived 17 years of incredible unpredictability and volatility and hadn't ever even threatened to leave. Not once. I also know that I was at least partly to blame for his breakdown as coping with me on a daily basis didn't leave him with much left to defend himself from work bullies.

    After I left him, 2 years later, I thought I would try another relationship. To my surprise, my first explosion with that person was met with a very angry and emotional reaction and the man stopped contacting me.
    I was hurt and surprised. What did I do wrong? Couldn't he see that I was just trying to communicate how I felt? Why didn't he forgive me? I was devastated. I even had a purely sexual hook up after that as a form of punishment to myself. I was clearly not deserving of proper love.

    It took me another 3 years before I would try again and that was only because I was going through a manic episode. It was another hook up and then I met a guy online that I really liked, who had a lot of baggage.

    So, I was gave him 150% of myself in the first 5 minutes we knew each other and continued to show every charming, intelligent, caring and thoughtful side of myself because I had decided he was the one I wanted to be with.

    2 people found this helpful
  23. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to Pandora Paradoxical

    Hiya k , great minds haha, l couldn't sleep last night so only just come in now too to take a look around.

    Yeah , l figured all that with your h , to a T , tbh . l couldn't read the whole thread here l can't read too much but l did saw somewhere or something that you left him after 17 yrs and yeah l straight away thought all of exactly what you've just described . l don't think bpd people have any idea what their crap takes out of a partner mentally and emotionally.

    No surprises in what you describe with the other guy blowing up or disappearing either l'm afraid been there done that. Probably another thing l've always thought gives ex her abandonment thing worse with me . Probably because her ex quietly took her crap for so long, she seemed absolutely dumbfounded day 1 , that l wouldn't and gave her a dose of her own medicine back . Then l disappeared for a few days , let her think about it and cool off myself too. l knew she wasn't right a day after we met , she threw a mental no woman would throw so soon they're on best behavior at that stage but when she lost it , for me it was just like l don't care how unstable she is be damned if l was gonna put up being treated like that. She just couldn't work it out or understand, , someone wasn't taking her crap and wasn't gonna bother trying to understand her bs. It probably wasn't right to lose it like that but with crap she spewed and at a time like that well , yaknow , l mean she not the only one that can get very pissed off and in bad shape after divorce , l was too .

    Even this time, when she eventually drove me away after 6 wks , again , l could feel 4yrs later she was still just dumbfounded . We were messaging and she also just still hung around on the app for another 10 days after , and called a few times , 3wks ago now , but l know she's still dumbfounded and still expecting me to come good .

    Don't think l can this time though. l know she's real-ling now to though that she's pushed me too far this time , again , but l don't think l wanna go there again now anymore.

  24. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    The final bit of my blurb....

    Fast forward several weeks and my frustration levels were HUGE - he was a naturally reserved person with none of my joyful exuberance and was also not overly open with sharing his emotional inner thoughts.

    I immediately thought he was rejecting me (it never occured to me that it was just his personality type) so I had an episode. I sent him a torrent of gibberish trying to explain the hurt inside my heart that he had no idea existed, I attacked every part of myself as being the root cause of his reticence, I cried at my perceived rejection - THE WORKS.

    Ugh, it is so embarressing writing this, you have no idea!! ????

    He, of course, was flummoxed. How the hell did I go from perfectly rational and understanding to...THAT??!! I talked my way out of that one, but 2 weeks later I did it again....and again 2 weeks after that. By this time he thought I was nuts and stopped communicating.

    I waited until I was calm again and sent an explanation text. He wrote back that he understood and was not angry at me but I was too unstable for him. And that was it. He was gone.

    And rightly so, I might add.

    He had the strength to stand up to something that was not right for him and acted decisively. It was the massive kick up the arse I needed desperately...so here I am. ?

    I will not even think about pursuing another relationship until I get this behaviour under control. It is not fair on the other person and is emotionally exhausting for me. That's the point you have to get to if you have BPD - just about as low as you can go with no one but yourself to bail you out. It is only by getting to this point that you realise that you have to change to have any sort of hope for happiness.

    K xxxxx

    2 people found this helpful
  25. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    l son't know if it's typical bpd'ish but it wasn't so much the crazy talk or straight out blunt insults , l know who l am always have so on that part though it was more the fact that if she meant those things then l'm not wasting my time on a woman that thinks that way.

    But what really pissed me off and l just found totally mind boggling , was the arrogance and viciousness when she'd go off, never met anyone with that kind of arrogance and so vicious. But she was gorgeous when she wasn't going off.

    1 person found this helpful
  26. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    l think if not for that angle l'd probably wouldn't have ever lost it with her probably more so just left her to it walk off shaking my head or something. But to be going off and in the way she did and sayin the stuff she did just a day after meeting me and not even knowing me , was too much.

    l saw things first day actually , but l also saw so much good , and truly a love at first sight. But even first day some things l saw l knew could be serious and when she went off her nut just the very next day she also sent me an email , l knew nothing about bpd then or anything much about mental illness , but this was one scary email and so l showed it to a friend who's a professor and he just said holy hell , l think you better run away right now from this one my friend . lt wasn't his field but he had interests in all kinds of stuff too and turned out he knew a lot about prsonality disorders too and told me all kinds of stuff about the email.

  27. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    Haaaa no worries k girl , blurbs are good , there's always lots of info in blurbs between the gibber haha. Not that that was gibber but l mean when anyone really gibbers there's always stuff between the lines , yaknow.

    But nah , that kind of personality won't feel ya , and fair enough l guess. lt still just amazes me that you can see yourself . honestly , even if ex can see herself which l very much doubt going on stuff she says , she sure hides it very very well so that even l can't tell. But on the surface , she would never ever no way admit to anything or any substance. BUt it was also things she's just say even in just talking normally that would constantly show that she just had zero perception of anything she did in those ways or of her part in any of it.

    She would though proudly stake a few claims on tiny tiny things and pretty well thought she'd done her bit at that haha. Eevn they felt like Christmas though to be honest no matter how small it was always great to see her at least humble down just that tiny bit and show at least some self reflecting.

    Funny you talk about joy ,she was just gorgeous on her happy days and we'd just explode in fun and filth and convo haha 24/7 . We were identical in those ways .

    l better shut up or l'll start remebering good times and weaken

    1 person found this helpful
  28. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    Sorry k , speakin of blurb , l'll go stand in the corner after this and shut up , promises.

    l was thinking at work this morng , l've said so much , makes her look so bad . but she had incredible other sides too , and depth , soul most couldn't even fathom, and courage , my God never met anyone with such courage especially considering her height. And she did and offered to do some amazing things for us like travel cross the world, move cross the world , has been loyal 100% to me since we met , even while we weren't together 13mths of that , she said simply , no one else comes close, she wasn't the sort to have affairs or ons or hook ups with just anyone but there was no doubt of her love , even with her other side, because things she'd say simply just did not add up , beside all those things.

    Maybe if someone very very very special came along she might've started something new while we were apart , but for her that'd be a long long search given the person she was , although absolutely gorgeous looking, def' not most mens cup of tea non the less, some did try though mainly through work. She work on the airlines , dealt with 100s of people a day from all over the world, she was also a pilot and very very smart but she didn't like that and moved on to just supervising and things.She coped with work because she worked two day shifts and then 3 days off and all over the world, and never worked with the same crews twice and if it was the same place it would be 6mths apart.

    It's many big things like this that she'd done and been for us that often made me wonder just what if l wasn't so hold back about her , what if l did just go for it like she always wanted. l mean it was an insult not too considering , but l had to be careful with her she just had too many issues aside .

    But l have wondered a 1000 times , do you think she might've settled down if l had've just gone for it the way she was always willing too , ?

    Maybe her turns were frustration and pride that l hadn't , yet as she said here was this gorgeous girl who loved me to bit offering to do all this for me. l'v got no doubt some of it would still be there , but it might've maybe mad a huge difference , especially with her abandonment fears .

    This last time , l told her l'd been seeing someone new but she had to move back up home with legal stuff at least for now, she couldn't believe l could start seeing someone else , but we weren't together . Out of space

    1 person found this helpful
  29. Pandora Paradoxical
    Pandora Paradoxical avatar
    69 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx
    Dear Rx,

    It sounds like you have done the right thing, buddy. No amount of good times are worth the aggravation of constant fighting.

    I think the only type of BPD person who should be looking for a relationship is one who is either seeking to address their problem or HAS addressed the problem.

    To do otherwise is selfish (in my opinion only, of course) because it will be inevitable that both of you will be unhappy.

    But, as I mentioned before, not everyone can see it.

    I have always seen patterns in behaviour, even at a young age, so I think this is why I knew something wasn't right. It is a blessing and also a curse - to know and understand, but still fall victim to an episode because I have allowed myself to become overwhelmed emotionally always leaves me feeling like a failure.

    But I am also dedicated to working it out, whatever the cost, so I pick myself up again and try harder.

    Nice talking with you, Rx. 😊

    Now that you have experienced BPD-type behaviour first hand, you now know what to watch for and I hope, through our dialogue, you understand some of the reasons behind the behaviour.

    We are just trapped, lost and unloved children in adult bodies.

    Kindest regards,

    Kar-Lee xxxx
    2 people found this helpful
  30. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1310 posts
    4 March 2020 in reply to randomx

    We knew we'd always be together though , probably forever , even if we weren't together so me seeing someone else was yet another in her eyes still a betrayal . She was ok at first but that also built up over the next few wks.

    Unbeknown to me , l could still feel her and l had a lot of emotional stuff even being with someone else , but l thought we would be done this time and she was the one ended it . But she planned coming over and knocking on my door , thank God she didn't , it might've been very bad timing yet she would've come cross the world to do it..

    She dumped us from fear she told me when we reconnected, feeling l wasn;t behind us but yet here she was willing to move cross the world , so yet more hold back and these things always came up every time she went off. Things from years ago or yesterday, yaknow. Said l was never steady about us and l wasn't , but because of her thing.

    Butttt, l wonder many many times just what if l was , would it really have made a difference to her other side ? It seemed she could always poke the bear about pretty well anything and always find a reason to boil over , butttt, what if ?

    1 person found this helpful

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