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Topic: Broken heart that I can’t heal after divorce

  1. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hiya lauz.

    Yeah of course you know, that's the kind of love we're talking about here right . l'll always feel her and her me, we both knew that , even though we're on opposite sides of the planet again now, she may as well be on my lap.

    We ended a bit like you guys though , we really did a good job good of it this time. And l know it will damage us for a few yrs now but yep we will connect again , time passes , especially if we haven't moved on properly by then. For me , l know lately that l'll kind of have two hearts from here on. One will always be there , and one will be with my knew life and partner should that be the way things go , if that makes any sense.

    1 person found this helpful
  2. randomx
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    1613 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to randomx

    PS. Sorry forgot to add , l did have that hope yep for sure , oil and water or not , But meeting someone new you realize it's kind of all or nothing and hopefully it becomes the new, you know. And it has a lot for sureand probably will a lot more yet . We've talked about it a lot though and she does understand because she was divorced but he will always be in her heart too , she says a long side of me. And l can accept that bc that's something like it will be for me too . You take care hey , rx .

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  3. Lauz22
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    38 posts
    20 October 2020 in reply to randomx
    Hi rx,
    That’s very open and honest. It’s a very interesting insight of love and how it can work.
    Would you say that the intensity of your feelings of love towards your ex has reduced as time has gone by? Or do you still feel as strongly towards her?

    What do you think your future will hold? Or maybe I should ask what do you want your future to hold for you?

    Currently I am confused. I keep believing I will be single, by choice and because I won’t find a connect that I had with my ex husband.
    But if I meet someone else will I still always want what I had with my ex?

    Can you love two people?
    If the love is so strong, why hasn’t love found its way back to each other?
  4. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    21 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hi lauz.

    Could you explain why you were the way you were with your H , and how you were with him ? l haven't read back bc a long day but l'd like to know more anyway , only if you don't mind. Bc it dawned on me l could probably say my ex was similar at times. l'd researched a lot and thought she may be bpd , but l'm not so sure anymore. l've started thinking in her way it was more about self preservation bc she;d been so badly hurt before. She only actually blurted out love a few times, mostly she was basically in denial with things like we need to be side by side more bc we were apart 50-70% of the time. We'd be so full of love and feelings wks on end but then she'd start poking the bear , almost as if to reverse it to protect herself, l dunno. And fights would start , we broke up 4 or 5 times with her turning like that no reason on the surface but l think it was shyt testing and self preservation even if subconsciously, l dunno. So the love did keep finding us , over and over , but then she'd blow it up again. In the end it was like we must be just toxic , but these days l think it was more along the lines of above and fear.

    Yeah , l think you can love two people which is kinda how it is for us now . But l don't think though even if ex and l did connect again , we'd try it again though bc the last time she blew us up was like ok there's not a damn thing we can do with this it happens every time and we give up . But as l say l think now days that she subconsciously sabotaged so that's a bit of a different thing but none the less l still don't think we'd try again though bc for whatever the real reason was , it did just keep happening .

    But you know what , l thought l'd be single too , didn't think l could try again. and actually that's also something like l think my ex was subconsciously and why her crap. Buttttt, here l am , someone else has come along but you your only late 20s so unless you sabotage it most def' , love will come again if you let it. That's my thing right now , l have to let it , l know l'm fighting it off.

    As for your ex , l don't know. lt does sound like his love was sort of broken from the way things went. Sometimes thaat can't be unbroken or come back.\

    l admit now l'd like a partner and future , to have love , l'd rather it but if it didn't happen well, l'm older than you and l'd probably think well , eff it, whatever. l've thought too of just having no one , and if ex and l did reconnect l'll be free, l dunno.

    rx

    2 people found this helpful
  5. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    21 October 2020 in reply to randomx

    ps.

    As far as what kind of love , or that love again , l'd say yes most definitely . You could very possibly have a love like that again even more , especially at your age. l know there's love but then there's also love , but l also know absolutely anything can happen in life and often even just around the very next corner , or the very next day or wk or yr , things can change in a heart beat .

    take care . rx

    3 people found this helpful
  6. ecomama
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    21 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Dear Lauz

    I've read all the posts on this thread so far. There seem to be far more questions than answers. This could be because we're all so different.

    I can certainly relate to you and rx. The haunting feeling of "that" person, I hesitate to say "the one"... read on lol.

    SO many things made so much more sense to me when I read (and kept as a reference book) M.Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled".

    It's a classic, definitive text on probably ALL the different types of love one can experience. He was a brilliant psychiatrist.

    I found it exceedingly soothing not only for the marriage that had imploded and exploded in all different ways but also to help heal the other romantic heartbreaks I felt. Even those not romantic ie from family.

    Lauz you mentioned so many toxic things about your marriage. It was an abusive one.
    There's lots of learning and healing to be done and IMHO it would be the worst thing to try again with your exH. The time he screamed at you about marriage counselling?

    Not a good sign for any hope of being able to work through things.

    I realised in 2 long term relationships (one my first marriage with very similar timing / ages to yours) that I would have to abandon myself COMPLETELY to ever have a relationship with each of those ppl.
    I concluded both times that THAT wasn't the love I wanted to have in my life.
    After alot of cruelty and pain I ended each of those.

    I'd always held "that one" in my memory & my heart, who was so beautiful. No lows just love... such a heavenly dreamy relationship. But he'd applied for a contract OS before we got together. It came thru & he pained over taking it. I encouraged him to. I also had a contract here.

    The last marriage was extremely abusive ("It" was pure evil). Since then I've done SO much work to see red flags etc. Courses, more courses, Counselling, psychology.
    I'd see red flags in a field of white lol!

    30y after "that one" and I parted, I've met a magnificent man who overtakes him by eons.
    So Intelligent. So kind. Generous and loving.

    It was as though I'd never been intimate with anyone before him.

    He blew everyone out of the water.

    You can love more than one person. At the start my fiancee told me I had to share his heart with his wife who had passed away AND his exW who had divorced him. Luckily he has a huge heart!
    I understood.

    5y later he says those other loves have faded away. His heart is full of love for me.

    Have hope for the right kind of love.

    Love EM

    1 person found this helpful
  7. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    21 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Yeah exactly what l was trying to say to in your last bits there em. l can actually feel that exact path happening with my partner now l l'd describe her and us in a similar way. And for us it's also very similar in that of course we've both loved before and that's just fine , it's just life , and love.

    And funny , but l've always known my partner could well over take past loves , especially if l fully open up to it again and just allow it which is slowly happening , and she tells me many times l already am overtaking hers which l feel more more more she doesn't have to tell me but it is nice to hear none the less.

    Be good to yourself lauz. rx

    3 people found this helpful
  8. Lauz22
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    38 posts
    28 October 2020 in reply to randomx
    Hi rx,
    I feel I am at a point where I fully understand the way our relationship operated and what my behaviour was like.
    My childhood up bringing and conditioning led to me to behave in toxic ways. I grew up where we didn’t speak about feelings and when I expressed emotions I was punished or shamed by my parents. We never apologised to each other in my family. We just ignored the issues and moved on.

    So I was emotionally unavailable for myself and H. I genuinely did not have capacity to process emotions. I pushed them down, shut them out and ignored them like the plague (Or nowadays Covid). It made me so uncomfortable to be vulnerable and discuss feelings so I never did and it obviously has erupted.
    I never saw when I did something wrong, instead shifted blame onto H. I just reacted through crying and screaming - physical action. This is because I didn’t know how to express my emotions through healthy conversations.

    It sounds horrible but like your ex I believe it comes from a place of intense fear. For me it wasn’t malicious but subconsciously behaving like a child who never fully developed emotionally.
    It’s also a defence mechanism. I had this need to strongly to protect myself. I though the more I put walls up the more protected I was. Or the more I blamed my problems on him, made me feel better about myself.
    I was so fearful of admitting my faults. It felt like I’d be a worthless failure if I did. I didn’t want to talk about my feelings because it was like shining a light on all the pain I held onto from my childhood.

    Kind of like your ex. It seems she may be insecure and projected her problems onto you.
    Do you know if she had something deeper going on?
    It seems like she never fully let you in maybe to protect herself from getting hurt.

    Subconsciously, yes she may be behaving in ways she doesn’t even realise. I speak from experience - it won’t be until she figures it out that you guys may have a chance.

    Do you think you are ‘in love’ or have love for your ex?
    Also how long since you have broken up?

    Like you, I feel getting back together with an ex won’t work. Unless both put hard work into fixing their issues individually and in the relationship.

    Do you feel you are holding yourself back in your current relationship?

    I think the best thing to do it learn from the past and put faith into what the future holds. Whatever is meant to be will be.

    Thanks for the insight and honesty rx
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  9. ecomama
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    28 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hi Lauz and rx

    I think it's perfectly normal to be scared of letting the walls down in a relationship, even in marriage.

    We can't underestimate the hurt experienced in childhood or from a previous relationship.
    Knowing it and even acknowledging it may not be enough... seeing how it plays out in our reactions (when we're triggered) is interesting investigation. I read about "schemas" alot a few years ago and wow... they were all there for both myself and then H.

    Lauz you seem to be SO self aware. It was incredible to read your last post, so much insight and emotional intelligence poured out there. I'm in awe of you.

    Honestly, IDK how to "control" matters of the heart. It's been far easier to switch the feelings off if the person was abusive towards me.

    I pined for that "dream man" mostly secretly for a long long time, through marriages even most esp when things were bad in the marriage.

    rx.... do you still pine for your ex?
    It's really difficult going through this.

    Considering the time it took me to get over dream man... and now I've met someone who blew him away metaphorically speaking lol... I couldn't be with anyone else whole heartedly if this relationship broke up.
    I couldn't squeeze 5% of my heart out for anyone else.

    I know enough of myself now to know this would be true. This is both beautiful to experience and so poignant and sad if it happens. Deeply scary too.

    EM

    3 people found this helpful
  10. randomx
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    1613 posts
    29 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hiya lauz and em.

    Lauz l'm sorry to rehash childhood things, l know you skimmed it earlier l should've left it there , so thanks for going into it a bit more and so sorry you were denied such natural and hugely important for us all. l hope you've been able to work through it with someone it could help. Later teens early 20s l thought l'm keeping and using what l liked and believed in from people, family, parents any of their ways that l liked , but l'm throwing out the rest and doing things my way from here. l didn't believe we have to take the bads with us, and still don't. l know that's not easy but your the boss of you when we grow up and it's the chance to do things your way, yaknow. But like me , and l was , you have a great head start because yeah for sure your far more aware of it all than most and run deep. l know though better than most changes l wanted in my life isn't easy it's a bit by bit thing, few steps forward few back haha. lt'd help you so much if your relationship is the sort of person you can talk to too as it goes along and explain your ways it'd be a massive help for you. All much easier said than done and found l know .

    Yeah that was ex , through and through it took time to piece it together, she was everywhere , but she couldn't see or acknowledge herself so there were real road blocks in talking about it. l could've recorded things she did and said, or shown things she wrote, it'd make no difference, it just didn't happen. On our highs we'd talk so much though, but weirdly actually nah not much on childhood. She said she had a dream childhood though, grew up in ltaly and they had a beach house family holidays, it sounded beautiful, surreal. She moved countries in her 20s though but still had a great relationship with her parents. She'd had a man run from hell though from her very first on , and sadly an horrific divorce too, so really her ways were no wonder. But sadly nah she'll never figure her out now, denial . The right man could help if she'd let him in but with her run doubt that'll happen now.

    But for me moreso l have a place for it so to speak but it ain't easy though and yeah l do still pine, it's still confusing. And l do still love her in ways but on the other hand she also broke that love too and so it's hard to fathom in just exactly what way it is now. But it is broken and l think it's beyond now, l think we both knew it and even if we do cross again it's going to be a kind of numb.

    rx

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  11. ecomama
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    29 October 2020 in reply to randomx

    Lauz you're doing so well. Hugs, it's difficult.

    rx - I'd better post on your thread.... so many things you said struck a cord with me and woah boy it's hard.

    Love EM

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  12. Lauz22
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    38 posts
    29 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hi EM,

    I intended to reply to your original message earlier than I have now. Thanks for writing in.

    You are right. The marriage was toxic on both ends. As I previously mentioned, I agree that unless both H and I put hard work into fixing our problems with ourselves AND in the marriage, it won’t work.
    During the marriage I wanted to go to counselling which he denied. Now we have separated, I have begun my journey of self healing and growth. Unfortunately he still doesn’t seem to want to fully heal or fix the issues that caused such toxicity from his end.
    As a result, I can’t control that and will not be able to wish for a successful marriage unless he does so.
    That is kind of where I’m at with my pain. I feel somewhat let down by him during the marriage when he rejected counselling and again after we separated and he still did not want to help the situation. I can’t understand how he never wanted to work it out on my terms or how he says this divorce is the most painful experience for him but didn’t want to work it out?

    I try to tell myself his problem is his. Mine is mine. I can only control my healing journey.

    Questions for you EM
    Were you married to ‘the one’ who moved overseas? Did you consider moving with him?

    When you had left a long term toxic relationship the first time, did you learn and use that as a way to spot the red flags for the next relationship? Or did you find that the toxicity got the better of you and led you down an abusive relationship?

    I only ask as I don’t know how I will be in my next relationship (if I do get into one). Am wondering if my lessons will prevail or whether I have a naive personality that succumbs when I get caught up in the moment and end up in another toxic relationship!

    Thanks for the suggestions of books/reads.

    Glad to hear you have met a such a wonderful man. Was this ‘perfect man’ a fantasy? I feel I have done that too - even when I was married that I made up the perfect male. I don’t know if it exists...

    Do you mind telling me more about your current relationship?
    Are you scared to let your guard down? You say you won’t fully love anyone besides him, why do you think that?

    - lauz

    2 people found this helpful
  13. Lauz22
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    38 posts
    29 October 2020 in reply to randomx

    Hi rx,


    Thanks for the kind words. Funnily enough, I feel comfortable talking about my dysfunctional childhood as I feel it’s out of the closet now and I am trying to make peace with it.

    Those decisions were great decisions to make.
    Believing in yourself is so powerful. People can make hurtful comments but it doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s more so just ‘noise’ we can shut out. It’s important to not let people’s negative behaviour/words hold so much power over us - of course it’s a battle at times but something to always strive for.

    Ideally, in all future relationships (including romantic if I decide to have one) I wont hold back feelings and hide them in a closet. I want to be comfortable being vulnerable with my emotions and know myself well enough to understand what’s going on and how to address them with myself or with a partner.

    It was just so hard to even let in H on what was really going on deep inside me - it was my biggest fear. The thought of being vulnerable made me sick.

    Sorry about your ex. Somewhat like ex H, I found it impossible to get through to him - I resorted to screaming and crying in frustration.
    It’s a real shame that we speak yet aren’t heard.
    I’m not sure if you could have done anything more to have come to an understanding with her. It does seem she not only shut you out but almost like she shut herself out.

    I don’t know where your love for her will land you, but if it’s not meant to be, I hope you can find peace and hold onto the memories when you think about her.
    I hope this for myself with ex H too.

    I don’t mind conversing about your ex if you feel you want to. I find it helpful and would like to listen if you feel you need to talk more about it!

    - lauz

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  14. ecomama
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    29 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Dear Lauz

    I'll do my best to answer your questions... maybe we can make it an ongoing conversation lol...

    "I can’t understand how he never wanted to work it out on my terms or how he says this divorce is the most painful experience for him but didn’t want to work it out?"
    I can't either but I have my instincts as to why.

    "Were you married to ‘the one’ who moved overseas? Did you consider moving with him?"
    No but he had proposed. I said no... long story. ABSOLUTELY I wanted to! But we both had high paying work contracts, mine interstate and his OS. It would have cost us $30k or so to get out of them. Very hard to keep up contact back in those days pre-internet / pre cheap calls etc.

    "When you had left a long term toxic relationship the first time, did you learn and use that as a way to spot the red flags for the next relationship? Or did you find that the toxicity got the better of you and led you down an abusive relationship?"
    Red flags weren't even a term back then. I've been married more than once. Had several LTRs who I also turned down (I consider those a success lol).

    I did try to really understand what went wrong but as I say without internet or forums or the research into abusive personality types, Counsellors available etc... barely a word on DV unless it was violence.. not the other 7 forms.

    "Toxicity" didn't get "the best of me" no. I was extremely forgiving and understanding - TOO MUCH so lol.

    ".... Am wondering if my lessons will prevail or whether I have a naive personality that succumbs when I get caught up in the moment and end up in another toxic relationship!"
    You are SO aware and have a searching mind, you are NOT naive... not any more anyway!
    Build on this.
    You could find yourself in a toxic relationship again but hopefully before then or by then you will also have protected yourself 'enough' to get out and RUN.

    "Was this ‘perfect man’ a fantasy? I feel I have done that too - even when I was married that I made up the perfect male. I don’t know if it exists..."

    No one's perfect, NO ONE. If they did exist then we'd have to be "perfect" to match wouldn't we?
    I'm far from perfect and never aspire to be tbh.

    It was about WHO suited me best. That's pretty perfect as far as relationships go IME.

    Ticking more than "my boxes" is an amazing man for sure.

    Will answer your other questions in another post.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I'll give more clarity on what I've learnt as much as I can...

    Love EM

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  15. ecomama
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    29 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Dear Lauz

    Yes without a really good education of what "type" of person is abusive...
    What "abuse" looks like - including financial abuse, psychological abuse etc etc...

    I couldn't see the red flags clearly.

    After my last and by far the most destructive of my relationships ended c2014... I enrolled in a Course run by the local Women's Health Centre called "Breaking Free" OMG IT WAS AMAZING.

    10 sessions and I spent most of those months gobsmacked. omg omg omg freaking brilliant.

    I did SO many things... had Counselling ever since... joined FB groups to learn more... did SO much online research omg...

    I'm not an expert but I can see red flags MUCH better now.

    On to happier thoughts lol....

    After that hellfire marriage was over, I was DONE.
    But I had joined a forum based in America and received SO much support and read all the links to all things there... poured my heart out.

    As it happens so was current BF. Out of around 60 000 ppl, I made online friends with around 10 others and eventually with BF (I've met them all in person btw!).

    Letting our guards down was ALL we did online! We never expected to actually MEET each other lol!

    So I guess the ground was prepped for BF and I to be extremely open and honest, we knew most of it anyway lol. But this is not how I would approach a new relationship... being guarded over your personal life is far safer than being all open and vulnerable.. (see Brene Brown online & Netflix).
    It's ONLY as the trust is built between you both that you should let things out slowly.

    The Course taught us NOT to rush into any relationship and to watch it for at least 2y before making any type of commitment ie moving in together etc.

    BF and I became best friends THEN met each other.

    I was terrified to let my guard down but as his was down also.. we've weathered the storms so to speak.

    I've never exposed more of my mind and myself to anyone before him.
    Him to me also he says.

    I know I couldn't love anyone as much as him because no one's known so much of me and loved me so deeply anyway.... warts, Courts and all lol.

    Even though THAT could happen, there's little chance that I could love another person the way I love him.

    I know this bec it took 30y for me to finally get over the previous outstanding relationship / wonderful man.

    I couldn't be with someone else again with the feelings I have for BF. It wouldn't be fair on that next person at all.

    In fact I'd hate it and would so much rather be alone and I mean that.

    EMxxxx

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  16. randomx
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    1613 posts
    29 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hiya lauz n em.

    Ahhh, just trying to answer your questions and em's really but there's no one line answers with mine so that might take a bit haja. Don't wanna over run up ur thread with my crap , this is your place for you . But at the same time yeah agree em , on the other hand it is nice to find we've all had similar crap and bounce things around too and hopefully it helps lauz .

    Just on the flag stuff , yeah same em , it all has names and terms we never hear of now hey , When l was first single again and started looking round the net , probably a mistake haha, especially with so much of it American or influenced, they're out in a whole nother league , l'm just wth . But at anyrate , l can see people always have but the problem is lauz that feelings are involved to with that person, that's the thing.

    l saw ex day one , she said a few things l knew in minutes she's gonna be dangerous and had shyt, l actually said to myself any man with half a brain would be running like hell right now. But we also clicked like to the surreal level ,insane unbelievable stuff l loved her good sides n personality , loved her looks , bod , all of it like never before. So this is the problem and running as they say even if you do see the other stuff maybe even first day like l did, might not be as easy as they make out. And with all those feelings you hope you can work on things instead and before long 4yrs have gone past or your married or something.

    But it's certainly a start to at least spotting them if you can, recognize them and hopefully you can stay strong from there and maybe do whatever you think best .

    rx

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  17. ecomama
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    29 October 2020 in reply to randomx

    Hey Lauz and rx

    I guess the long and the short of it is..... there are no guarantees.

    Knowing "enough" and taking the leap into the abyss lol is our only option.

    BUT IF your gut is screaming NO don't do it! Then in every case my gut instincts turned out to be correct.
    Did I listen at the time?...WAY more times than not.

    What I know for sure is that in every marriage I did my ultimate and absolute best.
    I stayed far longer in marriages and relationships to make sure I'd done everything I could.

    This way there's little to no room for regret.
    I also did most of the grieving necessary DURING the relationships... this helped in my recovery I think.

    Love EM

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  18. randomx
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    30 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Sorry em l meant to say yeah we'd never heard of all the names and terms out there now.

    Anyway , our gut screaming at us yeah , exactly how it would go. Strangely with ex my gut was actually pretty relaxed , it was more just my logical side with her knowing she had stuff..

    rx

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  19. Lauz22
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    30 October 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thank you EM for your insight! Very helpful!

    - I can't either but I have my instincts as to why.
    - My psychologist says that he is coping with the divorce his own way and that I don’t have control of what he does but I have full control of how I handle myself through this. However, humans are curious. I find myself wondering why I could never get through to him. If he loved me so much why didn’t he consider counselling or why didn’t he stop the detrimental behaviours I thought I had made so clear to him? This gives me pain in itself as I feel if we tried absolutely everything and it didn’t work then I could accept. I find it hard to accept someone that has constantly told me how strong his love for me was, never wanted to work it out on my terms or just gave up.
    EM What are your instincts telling you?


    - No but he had proposed. I said no... long story. ABSOLUTELY I wanted to! But we both had high paying work contracts, mine interstate and his OS. It would have cost us $30k or so to get out of them. Very hard to keep up contact back in those days pre-internet / pre cheap calls etc.
    - So sorry to hear. At the time, did it feel like the right person and the wrong time? Was that your first real heartbreak?


    - Red flags weren't even a term back then. I've been married more than once. Had several LTRs who I also turned down (I consider those a success lol). I did try to really understand what went wrong but as I say without internet or forums or the research into abusive personality types, Counsellors available etc... barely a word on DV unless it was violence.. not the other 7 forms.
    “Toxicity" didn't get "the best of me no. I was extremely forgiving and understanding - TOO MUCH so lol.
    - Due to lack of awareness and resources did it make you feel something was ‘wrong’ with you? To be honest, I felt there was something wrong with me. That I couldn’t be loved or deserved to be loved - even with therapy, podcasts, forums etc. however I will say I am starting to control my brain and rid that thought. I want to rewrite my brain to stop toxic thoughts that gives toxic results.
    1 person found this helpful
  20. Lauz22
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    30 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    -No one's perfect, NO ONE. If they did exist then we'd have to be "perfect" to match wouldn't we?
    I'm far from perfect and never aspire to be tbh.
    Ticking more than "my boxes" is an amazing man for sure.
    - thanks for the reminder. Maybe it’s the generation I grew up in being heavily exposed to social media where we compare to others, constantly seeing others perfect lives on social media or societies message was that you aren’t good enough as you are but you need to have the coolest clothes or the best holidays to have this perfect life.
    This on top of my childhood of never feeling enough led me to strive for a perfect life. To be perfect, have a perfect husband and life. When things weren’t the way I thought I should be I would get upset. It’s another one of many factors of our toxic relationship.


    In saying that, for future I am looking to raise my standards. Not necessarily for it to be perfect but better. To not tolerate poor behaviour and feel equal. I always want to improve myself to be the best version of myself. Would that be considered aiming for perfection?

    What a wonderful experience. It sounds like it has led you to such an amazing chapter of your life.
    What was the course called that you joined? Was this for people who were going through a breakup?
    I’m interested to hear more about it! I love to learn what helped you or what exercises you did that you can share with me!

    That’s a good point! Trust definitely has to be earned before we open up and make ourselves vulnerable.
    I have so much to learn and experience post divorce. I haven’t been single since I was 17.
    Although I do feel I need to learn to be on my own before there could be any possibility for another relationship.
    Kind of like you, when you say you’d rather be single if you weren’t with BF, I think I will choose to be single as I don’t think I can love anyone else right now.

    Ahh so when you say you took 30 years to get over ‘the one’ why was that so?
    Would you have gotten over him if it weren’t for BF?

    1 person found this helpful
  21. Lauz22
    Lauz22 avatar
    38 posts
    30 October 2020 in reply to randomx
    No problems rx. I am happy to have this thread to share all our experiences.
    As I said, having an insight of others relationships does help as I relate and see things from a different perspective.
    Especially as these days, being overly exposed to what people post on social media and how perfect their lives or relationships are. Being able to open up and discuss the ‘ugly’ sides of relationships is so much more real and refreshing.
    (Maybe the social media thing is just me and the generation I grew up in)

    Good point. ‘Red flags’ aren’t always shown at the beginning of a relationship either. they may appear when the person gets comfortable and opens up more of their true selves. I think it’s important to stand your ground and be aware of them no matter at what point in the relationship.

    Rx sounds like your emotions and feelings have slightly worn off for your ex and is being replaced with logic and reason .

    Post breakup I think we always think back to the good times and forget the bad. It’s not until you cross paths and may be reminded of the reasons things never worked out.

    Although that question of ‘why it couldn’t be’ tends to cause lots of pain in itself

    EM - I think that’s great. Referring back to my previous message, if you have given it your all and absolute best, then you can walk away proud of yourself.

    I don’t think me and exH did this... we just blew up and at times we would try in our own little ways. We never sat down, sorted our sh*t out like mature adults, put in the hard work or did our best. We kind of erupted and gave up. It’s sad. Again, it leaves me wondering why things couldn’t be...

    Lauz
    2 people found this helpful
  22. ecomama
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    ecomama avatar
    2598 posts
    30 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hi sweety and Lauz too lol... oh only joking! (I'm working on my drab comedic skills lol)... hi both sweet peeps!

    Ahhh Lauz so many questions, so much FORUM SPACE!!! Yay!

    Just remember Lauz, if I say anything that doesn't "sit well" with you then reject it instantly.
    Or let it rest in your mind, things may filter down that make sense over time.
    Or not, all good with me.

    It's developing this female intuition (also mentioned in the Course) that will stand you in good stead over your life time.

    SO....first question - exH rejecting Counselling etc etc
    My gut tells me he's a control freak lol.
    He would HATE ANYONE telling him any thing about how to live his life, what to do, how to treat you blah blah blah - Counselling can be like "white noise" to some ppl.

    When you know that women's greatest fears are being sexually assaulted and violence from men. Yet apparently research tells us that men's greatest fears are to appear weak and to be embarrassed.

    BINGO. Right there. I think there can be an addiction to ego in some ppl.
    Just my take on things. What do you think?

    Question 2 - right person wrong time and first heartbreak?
    Not my first heartbreak, no.
    Bit of reflection here... he was AMAZING, he was super intelligent, built like Adonis lol and so many things.
    At the time I felt I would have to work on myself forever to be deserving of him.
    I don't think at all like that about myself or about love now.

    SUPER bad timing... even a War broke out near a country we'd promised to meet in, half way, a year after we parted. We couldn't travel there.
    There were alot of other dynamics at play which are difficult to explain.
    I think we both couldn't do it anymore, even though we were both heartbroken to admit it.

    Question 3 - due to lack of awareness, did it make me feel there was something wrong with me?
    LOLOLOL HELL NO.
    There are millions of things "wrong" with me! That's if you put up the supposed fake bs of photoshopped models and picture book lives and do comparisons, which I NEVER do. Never have done.

    I'm just me!

    I've always had a strong sense of self worth. It became far stronger over my life time.
    I have plenty of things "men" want but it doesn't mean I want those men!

    To be clearer and this is going to sound awful but it is what it is... I've had a problem with too many suitors, not not enough. Yes it's a problem, stalking is a real problem & difficult to end.
    Even those I've never had a relationship with have turned into stalkers.

    xxEM

    1 person found this helpful
  23. ecomama
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    ecomama avatar
    2598 posts
    30 October 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hi Lauz

    You're not going to like what I've got to say on "perfect people and their perfect lives"...
    IT'S NOT TRUE.
    Fast forward 10-20y, the worst things come out.

    PLEASE don't look to others for your standards!
    Know YOURSELF.

    We KNOW striving for perfection is extremely detrimental for anyone's MH.
    This may be an addiction for you.
    Please speak with your Counsellor about this. I hope your Counsellor has a strong way of putting things to you because THIS is dangerous.

    And tbh would YOU want to be with a perfectionist?
    No way would I want that.

    Please watch Brene Brown's stuff online & hone in on the perfectionist stuff.

    Beware & detach from social media bs. "The subtle art of not giving a f*#@" is a really good listen. Podcast available. I've innately lived this way & couldn't have overcome the things I have without this attitude.
    It's POWERFUL.

    Perfectionism = a true waste of your time & life.

    Next question - Courses, learning.
    I couldn't tell you the millions of words I've read. Up to and over 700 pages a night sometimes. Countless online sites.

    Here are some:
    * The Course was called "Breaking Free" free through my local Women's Health Centre. It's research based and AMAZING. It's for women in DV relationships, trying to leave DV and / or those who had left DV (like I had) & were still perplexed over it.
    EVERY woman should do it.
    EVERY man should do the men's Course.
    I have reasons for saying this.
    There are follow up Courses to do for free also.
    Please phone your WHC and ask about them.
    * Brene Brown's works. Everything.
    * Dr Joe Dispenza's works. Everything including his Audio disks.
    * FB groups for women who'd experienced DV. I no longer have FB at all, Courts are done.
    * I studied "The Road Less Travelled" by M.Scott Peck for about 2 solid years, searching all things online about people he described in his book. I keep that book by my bed. I listened to his "People of the Lie" recently and can totally relate lol.
    * I read ALL I COULD on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Sociopaths and Psychopaths. Watched tons of youtube clips on same... and how to divorce same.
    * Milder stuff but absolutely worth having is Stephen Covey's "7 Habit of Highly Effective People"... brilliant. Anything online he did is fantastic too.

    Taking the time to search inside yourself and work things out will pay dividends to you in the long term too.

    Read up on...
    * the 180
    * the gray rock strategy too.. both necessary IME.

    Love EM

  24. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    31 October 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Yeah so true em.

    Forget perfect and the fb's of life these days, people plastering their "posed" pics all over the place lauz it's all such false realities. Yeah there'll be some truths and genuine in them, fun,real, some for sure. But you see people all over the place these days snapping away and slamming them of onto their fb look at me's faster than they can press all those little buttons , man the self imposed pressure and constructed image of it all ,,,,,l really dunno how they fall for it.

    Funny really , well in a way , my ex , she was a perfectionist , one of the best things about it not working out though was getting away from all that. My partner now is a realist like me and it's just so damn nice there's just such an inner calm and reality with us and just being around each other. But yeah it is true with the ex especially after our last breakup l know we both started looking at the real realities of just "us" from there. We had some of the most insanest synchronicities and intensity going on , yet, we always wound up oil and water and fireworks and there didn't seem to be a damn thing we could do to avoid them in the end. lt ended up emotionally exhausting us both and spirit .

    TBH it sounds your you h , among all the other stuff going on between you two , might've arrived at around the same place we eventually did in our last break up, there was nothing left to want to make it work. And my guess would be that combined with a mix of things em's talked about also thrown into it all.

    You might find that in time , you'll begin to see the real about you two ,

    rx

    2 people found this helpful
  25. Lauz22
    Lauz22 avatar
    38 posts
    5 November 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM,
    Please bare with me on my slow responses!

    Q1 - absolutely agree. There was also a level of arrogance. I quote him ‘I am not paying someone to tell me what I should do on my marriage’
    I was so taken back. I think, so you’d rather run your marriage into the ground over seeing a professional to HELP us?!
    We needed help and he thought it was so unnecessary yet he wasn’t doing anything to fix the marriage he said he so desperately wanted to fix? I am so resentful.

    On another note - he was a control freak! Lashed out of me over the most insignificant matters! I’ll touch more on his controlling behaviour in my next post!

    Q2 - although things didn’t work out, what a story and what a memory to look back on.
    Absolutely, we should not be working towards feeling ‘deserving’ of love. A simple reminder that we are enough as we are. Yet hard to believe sometimes!

    Q3 - your sense of self worth is so important! It’s easy to forget it with modern day society. I think before we can be with anyone we must have our own self worth and love. That’s what people are attracted to, it’s what helps build a healthy relationship together and individually!
    1 person found this helpful
  26. Lauz22
    Lauz22 avatar
    38 posts
    5 November 2020 in reply to randomx
    EM, I completely agree! I hate society’s fixation on perfectionism!
    It is so toxic and causes such a negative impact. I am experiencing it first hand.

    It just feels like it is a sense of accomplishment when you have a great job, beautiful house and family, nice clothes etc.. you know?
    It’s like we need to be all that to be happy or worth of love and overtime I forget about what really makes me happy or what I want in life.

    It’s something I will have to work on as you said. Good start is to not spend son much time on social media!

    Thanks for the suggestions and info!
    You can really see how much work you’ve put in for yourself, it’s so great!
    We’re so lucky to have so much resource available to us these days.

    My goal is to continue pushing through this challenging time and hoping to come out stronger than ever.
    I feel I am doing well but of course have my days.


    Rx - yep, perfectionism definitely has it’s detriments. Was she influence by social media? I hope not.
    Your relationship sounds so familiar to mine. The highs were unbeatable and the lows so intensely chaotic with absolutely no sense.
    The highs were what kept us around for longer than we should have. It’s similar to an addiction. It’s not good for us but we crave it. Like any other addition, it’s so much harder to quit it than to succumb to it.
    I guess I have to be glad this happened before we had kids..
    I think I do see who were both were more so than ever now. I think maybe because I haven’t ever had anyone else to compare to there are bits missing that I won’t fully understand until I experience first hand!
    1 person found this helpful
  27. Lauz22
    Lauz22 avatar
    38 posts
    5 November 2020 in reply to Lauz22
    Recently I have been feeling overwhelmed.
    What are people’s thoughts:

    ExH and I still own a house together that has been on the market since May and it hasn’t sold due to COVID and Stage 4 lockdown in Melb.

    The back story is, this house is our second and upgraded house that we planned to live in ‘forever’. It’s newly built, highly upgraded with features, more expensive than budgeted.
    However it’s in an below average area which is far from our friends and family. Due to this I never really support this idea. It was too soon for an upgrade (1.5 years into our marriage), an area that was so excluded from fam and friends, it wasn’t an area I wanted to raise kids in or felt safe.
    It was 100% his decision. He literally gave me an ultimatum.
    He came home one day stressing about upgrading our house to a nice family house before prices went up too much and within a week he bought a new block of land to build.
    Who does that?!
    (This act from ExH being alone controlling and calling all the shots in our relationship with no regards for my wants or needs in life is the straw that broke the camels back)

    Ironically after we moved in, we separated a few months after.
    The discussion was me suggesting to rent it out as I thought it wasn’t a good time to sell (Covid) and didn’t know if we would get back together. Again he pushed his decision and forced us to put it on the market.

    A few months back when I proposed to try to make our marriage work and move back to the house he said no again.

    At every stage, the suggestions I made he has rejected and taken full control of the house and finances.

    I understand the house not selling is not his fault. But what I’m so angry at is how he got us into this mess and I have been paying half the bills (thousands of dollars) when absolutely non of this was my decision!
    Do you think that’s fair?
    I was trying to be so patient with him and the sale of the house but when I see expensive bills come out of our joint account I am getting so upset. I feel he trapped me into this mess! He made all the decisions yet I bare the consequences!


    I still struggle to understand how someone can be SO controlling! How it was his way or no way and he didn’t even once consider what I wanted in a life we were sharing.
    Is what he did common in men with controlling behaviour patterns?

    Thoughts?
    1 person found this helpful
  28. ecomama
    Valued Contributor
    • A special award for members who go above and beyond to support others here on the forums
    ecomama avatar
    2598 posts
    5 November 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hi Lauz

    Lots to respond to.
    I'll respond from my POV to the last set of points, being Control with a capital C.

    It would be an amazing investment of your time right now if you did lots of reading (if you can) or watching online clips if that's easier on:
    * How to divorce a narcissist
    * NPD
    * anything on domestic violence - it's not ALL physical violence... focusing mainly on the perps moves and psychological make up.

    ExH may or may not be a narc but he certainly has "control issues".

    EG a narcissist doesn't have a "partner", they have a kingdom and servants.
    Them being the King and everyone else is a servant.

    There are oceans of info on this.
    Google is your friend lol.

    Reading the financial side of your story, as frustrating as it is for you right now, makes me see things very clearly indeed....

    THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS you got out when you did!

    I most certainly HEAR YOU.

    My first H was like this.

    My last H was much MUCH worse than him.

    Your whole life would have been used in this way had you stayed.

    Whatever it takes to disassociate in all ways financially, I would DO IT.

    Do you still live in the home?
    Or does he?

    Or is it EMPTY?

    Cut and run is my best advice there. ASAP.
    I'd rather you deal with financial settlement than ANYTHING else.

    Back on to the perfectionism illness.... please watch Brene Brown's The Call to Courage and anything else online of hers.

    I never blame "society" for the perfectionism illness at all!
    I take responsibility for what I focus on.
    I don't see it the same way as you.

    I have nice clothes, a pretty magnificent house in my sole name lol... a great family, a brilliant career (and some pretty fancy diamonds from current fiancee) but that doesn't make ME or any one of those elements "perfect".
    I didn't DO them or have them because of what "society" dictated to me - HELL NO.

    To be honest I WOULDN'T have them AT ALL IF I did what others told me to do! (I'd have NO children for starters).

    I did whatever it took to have those elements. Most of those elements I had to fight very hard for as I was going against the grain of what I was "supposed to" achieve according to trajectories for my life at the very least.

    As far as I'm concerned, "Society" would merely expect me to be a Law abiding citizen and take responsibility, not shirk it. But there is no "societal expectations" I abide by because of that figment.

    I do what I want because I WANT to do it.

    Love EM

  29. Lauz22
    Lauz22 avatar
    38 posts
    6 November 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM,

    Yes definitely control was one of his biggest issues. It was so damaging to our relationship.
    I felt like I was constantly fighting it and fighting him. But I never won. I had to cry kick and scream to get him to understand that he could not be so controlling over the relationship. It was even small things like furniture or where would we eat out.

    I saw it as something that would one day ruin us. He tried to change but he couldn’t.
    Now that we’re divorcing he still hasn’t changed.

    I just had a bad panic attack for the first time in a long time.
    I can’t understand his behaviour. Why it was detrimental but he didn’t even want to change it or said he would be couldn’t? I can’t understand how he professed his undying love for me but couldn’t stop behaving in ways that ruined us.

    I don’t think he is a narcissist.
    He didn’t see me as a servant. His positive side was romantic. He made thoughtful and romantic gestures, wrote poems, bought flowers and planed romantic dates etc.

    But can you see how extreme he is on both ends?
    I simply wanted to keep his positive side but work on fixing the negative. But it never happened.
    The negative side grew worse and it exploded.

    The house is empty but we are still paying for the bills. I don’t think I can cut financially until the house settles?

    On that note, the thought of selling the house and signing divorce papers makes me so fearful. It would be the last things holding us together and I don’t know what I will do without him...
    I am struggling to completely let go.
    Because this whole time I wanted us to work.
    I know we can’t be together unless he works on himself but he won’t do this and it hurts so bad.
    1 person found this helpful
  30. randomx
    randomx avatar
    1613 posts
    6 November 2020 in reply to Lauz22

    Hey lauz.

    Nah ,, don't think he was a narc labels are thrown round too easily these days , one big reason l really hated using any terms when trying to explain things with my ex, And it felt betraying doing so. We all have good and bad sides thats part of personality sounded like there were things from both of you anyway and sometimes that wrong mix simply brings out the wrong sides in us too. But if it's any consolation l do think he'll def reflect back on himself in yrs to come but he's still young so that might be awhile. l did myself and realized many of my own bads and still do these days bc as gf says, no ones perfect.

    Think l set of half of ex's stuff actually , that and our situation and the frustration in all of that. She could well be a totally different person with the right chemistry and a more normal situation, l know she was a good and giving , very, person , when all the stars aligned . l think unless there is a mental illness or some deep rooted things going on , whether or not they are a good person among it all is the key. Some people just aren't , em sounds like she's been involved with her share of those for sure, Do you think he was basically a good person or ? lf he was then with prodding one day he'll look back and realize , and hopefully work on he's bad traits like l've tried too.

    Ahwell, just thoughts.

    rx

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