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Supporting family and friends with a mental health condition (carers)

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Support following the bereavement of a family member, partner, spouse or someone close to you.

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by smallwolf
2 days and 8 hours ago

Topic: Marriage breakup + kids

  1. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    That list definitely shows how far I have come from the beginning. And I guess I haven't really started yet.

    That was a long period you had to endure, 6 years. Wow. That must've been mentally and physically. I don't know how you survived. Well done.

    I am just trying to do the little things. Told my boss during the week. Wants to catch up for a chat on Monday. That will be hard. Just to talk about things. Told a couple of other close people I work with/sit next to as it may have seemed I was being distant and rude. They support me.

    Anyways a day of sport today. Good to get out of the house.

    Thanks

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  2. ecomama
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    1634 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Good morning dl

    You've come a very long way in a short amount of time. You've made GREAT headway!
    (Mine was an unbelievable case - 5 Courts and I had no idea there WERE that many Courts to deal with this garbage. A veritable nightmare at the time BUT it's all but done now... ex can eat our dust lol!)

    I'm glad to hear you've told a few key people at work. As hard as this is, it's really important.
    I'm glad they're being supportive. nice.

    Have an AWESOME day with Sports!

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  3. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    Just had my psych session. I do feel much better after leaving there. Just good to talk about everything. Most financial stuff but how to move forward.

    Psych suggested I send email to W saying I have accepted it is over and that there doesn't need to be any hostility moving forward. We should try to communicate and that she can be nice to me, without me misinterpreting it as she wants to get back together. To be friends. And that I should say that I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with

    We also discussed me wanting to keep the house. To crunch the numbers and to talk to my dad for possible help. And to get local real estate valuers and speak to broker for a scope of things.

    All of this is 180. I told her about 180.

    Thanks

    dl23

    1 person found this helpful
  4. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23
    Sorry 'All of this is anti 180'.
    1 person found this helpful
  5. ecomama
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    1634 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    I think this is a GREAT idea dl! .... I actually thought you had already done this, SORRY! I mean having the conversation with W about accepting it's over etc...

    My misunderstanding. You never have to apologise to me lol, this is YOUR life.... You can take nothing, everything or anywhere in between or outside the box actions you decide.

    My aim for you is to feel more empowered.

    Your psych sounds pretty awesome.

    ALL GOOD!!!

    I think "by the time" the house is up for discussion via Mediation etc..... you could very well have a decent chance of buying it.... I was born optimistic!
    Never say never. It's not my saying but you can have it too lol.

    I need to say right now that for all the years right up to the WEEK of Settlement... no one would loan to me... nup NOBODY anywhere and you should know me by now I SOURCED EVERY BANK right through to Brokers.... no one.... I just KEPT on pushing... (the BIG 'unpredictable' was the legal costs for them all on top of ex' payout, all the kids 100% care blah blah blah)

    Pretty much what the whole world said about me "winning" too...

    RIGHT now like right this minute and for the next xxxxx amount of time you have a WINDOW and it could be a really long window to pull out all stops and get this YOUR way..
    paying down the car... glad the CC is not in your name btw... all that stuff bugging you can be really paid down right now...

    Also the kids being 50% care? SO much easier for loan capacity... Plus you're stacks younger than me lol so have up till a 70yo pay off time... (not that you want a mortgage this long - me neither ...).

    Happy days... well for what you can milk out of it.

    More power to you dl23

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  6. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thanks EM. You have been awesome to me for helping me out so much.

    For the email, I was thinking to say:

    1. I have been playing catch up emotionally to your decision of us separation and I did not handle it well at all, as I was in shock and felt blindsided.
    2. I now accept that it is over and I don't wish for there to be any hostility/animosity moving forward between us at all.
    3. I will not misinterpret us getting back together if we start to be on a more communicative (verbal) basis and be friendly towards each other.
    4.I will continue to treat you with respect, as I have been trying to, and will continue to communicate with you with a positive approach.
    5. With love and care, I don't wish to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. Therefore I will not dwell on the past, bring yp anything about feelings or behaviours.
    6. In the end I would like us to have a positive, mutually respectful and child focused co-parenting relationship for our boys.
    7. I would like a smooth, fair and equitable settlement so that we both come out of it with a positive outcome.

    How does that sound? Change anything or add anything?

    Thanks

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  7. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23
    And to also say that all I want is for you to be happy and to have positive mental health. No matter, what I will be there for you if you need anything.

    Is that too much or too manipulative?
    1 person found this helpful
  8. ecomama
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    1634 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Hi dl23

    I think those are really great and well thought out statements!

    5. (possibly...) With all due respect, you are the mother of my children so I will always hold you in high regard. (I'd leave out the feelings part about past and behaviours and stuff)

    6. (instead of "in the end" I would say something like) From now onwards... then your bits.

    I really like them.

    I feel like crying at reading this, I'm not sure how you're going over there...

    Btw it's a privilege hoping to help you here... it's a hard time. I hope the worst of times for your whole life.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  9. ecomama
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    1 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    dl23 said:And to also say that all I want is for you to be happy and to have positive mental health. No matter, what I will be there for you if you need anything.

    Is that too much or too manipulative?

    PERHAPS about the first sentence above, something like ... I want you to be happy and to get through this time in the best possible way (we get VERY used to using the term mental health on BB and there's nothing wrong with this at all... it just might seem like you're saying she's crazy lol).

    Tbh I would leave out the "I will be here for anything you need" because if she gets a big brawny tattooed bf then I tell you what .... HE can unblock the toilet. AND mow the lawns etc.
    Please don't lay yourself out as a doormat. I've made this mistake for lots of my life and it's NOT good shopping lol.

    Not manipulative, not at all from my perspective.

    Quite the opposite in fact.

    High five!

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  10. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    1 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thank you so much EM. You have made everything so much easier for me and for also adjusting the way my email should be. It's good to get a female perspective when writing things like this.

    So for No.5 I have it as:

    With all due respect, you are the mother of my children so I will always hold you in high regard. I don't wish to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

    And I am okay at the moment. Had a night out with youngest at the footy.

    It still really hurts all of this. Especially when I know she will end up with someone else. Really sad.

    I will try for the house. Going to try and increase my income with casual job.

    I will send email tomorrow night as I need to respond to another email RE: childcare.

    Thank you once again.

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  11. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    2 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Really struggling today. In a dark place.

    W took kids for early brekky, with her parents who she caught up with, and didn't even realise they went out with her. She asked earlier in the work what times I am going out and coming home on the weekend, to time her parents coming to collect some stuff. She usually goes walking early mornings by herself.

    W sifted through my dirty clothes in laundry basket on Friday and purposely didn't washed them. The only clothes left in the basket today are all mine. Asked for instructions via paper and did laundry when I got home.
    Just really cut me deep.

    Do I stop emptying/taking out the bins?
    Do I stop mowing the lawn and cleaning the pool?
    She wouldn't even vac the theatre room yesterday when I wasn't home. Do I stop lifting a finger? The only thing left is we still make meals for the family and serve each other up food and leave it on the bench.

    Again, she has asked me to help her out with a code for a program again. Maybe I should workout her % of remaining annual fee, send it to her and tell her she needs to sign up with her own email address fof $140/year. That'll make her angry.

    Maybe I need to sign up to my own private health insurance as I know she will react by taking me off the joint one.

    She is obviously deliberately trying to antagonise me and upset me.

    I don't even feel like sending that email (with 8 points) above anymore. I feel like sending her a mean one. But then I would be stooping to her level and be going against the 180 strategy.

    I don't even want to keep emailing her anymore. I feel like blocking her. I bet she would reply to my 8 point email saying "why are you saying this to me", like she said after previous email I sent after 1st psych session. Or she will probably say "stop trying to manipulate me'. It will be something like that.

    I am so twisted up and frustrated. I don't know what to do.

    Thanks

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  12. ecomama
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    1634 posts
    2 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Dear dl23

    IDK I would really like Mr Paul to chime in here too.... I think he's been in far more similar a situation.

    I also lived under the same roof for way too long married AND separated but I was "straight down the line" after separation - there was zero love to say the best. ex never took the garbage out in 20y or cleaned the pool lol... until later... (too complicated).

    Sighhh it's hard.

    Tbh the very BEST thing I ever did was to have NO REACTION... silence... zip.

    I was the one who "split time" with the kids and took them places in my time. ex did nothing -except abuse us as per.

    W is making a statement, obviously, with her actions. Actions speak louder than words.

    Tbh dl23 I would have a week's break from reading Ws emails and not tell her that.
    Your poor head and emotions need a break.

    ONCE you get your head around the next level of "normal" in this topsy turvy time... then you can email YOUR boundaries....

    I've been told by a very complimentary ex lol that I've got balls the size of the largest planet!
    I told him I had to grow them that big to be the man AND the woman in the house lol.

    If you're ready at all in the future you could write things like.... "due to our shared household responsibilities swiftly changing by your actions / inactions, we can take turns. I will now_______(fill in the blanks... my examples...
    * take the bins out every fortnight
    * clean the pool once a month, you can hire a pool guy if you can't do it - up to you
    * have the boys all day Saturday - whatever suits you).

    W is setting the pace here dl and it's very hard to keep adjusting your headspace.

    Making clear boundaries of YOUR OWN will help return some balance of power in a very inequitable space atm.

    That's what ALL this is about; CONTROL. Manipulation and I think maybe yes, trying to get a rise out of you.

    Ignore ignore ignore.

    See what I mean about leaving out the "I will do anything at all for you in the future" comment?
    You do not want to model being a doormat to a manipulative person to your boys.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  13. Mr Paul
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    286 posts
    2 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi Guys
    Sorry, but I had to drop out of the loop for a while. I have arbitration coming up and my lawyer dropped a bundle of paperwork in my mail box last Friday. I'm still trying to climb out from under it. I can see why FL is so dam expensive. The paperwork is endless.

    Yes, I do have some advice, I will try and send tomorrow. In the mean time I would hold off on the emails dl.

    Cheers.
    2 people found this helpful
  14. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    2 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thanks EM. I am not saying anything about any of it. I just keep plotting along. I kind of broke down quietly when I was doing my laundry. I just thought, this is it. My life as a family, gone. No longer a husband. No longer have a wife. So many emotions.

    I even did some things to help out. I have been making sure no dishes stay in the sink and go into the dishwasher. I even put dinner away after W cooked tonight. Made me feel good to do it. I still took the bins out even though I thought about leaving it but I am better than that. My youngest likes going in the car (need to reverse to pull bins through garage). Although I left his presents in there and he only saw a little bit of a box but I had to fib who they were for. E.g. work.

    Haha that wouldn't go well telling her to split household responsibilities. I mean fair is fair. She is doing nothing anymore for me. I do the bins all the time. Pool and lawns are periodic. Lawn is starting to look long. Maybe I will leave it for a while.

    It's just the little things she is doing.

    I definitely see what you mean about the doormat comment.

    Maybe she can take the boys out on weekend arvos. I do all the sport trainings during the week and sport half Sat and 1 sport on Sun.

    I don't know how I will react if she says something negative to my 8 dot point email. I may need to tell her to please no longer communicate via email or ignore her for a week like you said.

    I haven't been rung by mediation place for second stage screening call. Might need to ring them.

    Legal phonecall tomorrow night.

    Thanks

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  15. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    2 August 2020 in reply to Mr Paul
    Geez Mr Paul. Sounds like a tough tough period you are going through.

    Have a break.
  16. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to Mr Paul

    Dear Mr Paul

    My thoughts and Prayers are with you at this time. I hear you, I remember. I won't say more atm, it might distract you. We can talk it through later.

    Steely focus for now.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  17. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Hi dl23

    I'm glad Mr Paul could chime in and say to hold off on the emails for now.

    I agree... your emotions are fraught and I wouldn't send the 8 point email as it was now at this stage. Bit like talking about the gate after the horse has bolted but up to you...

    Just let it rest till you're thinking straighter.

    The most I would say at this stage is "Don't misinterpret my courteous manner, I've accepted your decision to separate and divorce. I'm not trying to "get back together" with you at all, merely being courteous and respectful."

    Totally up to you what chores you do. Looking after yourself is really important. EATING at least!

    I keep reminding you to look after yourself because nothing and I really mean nothing can prepare you for the hell of a Family Law case if it keeps going. Mine had multiple Courts and sometimes at the same time and it was the worst time of my life - bar none.. children disclosing made it that much more like hell.

    Looking after yourself as best you can NOW will give you some resources, habits, routines in place as things become more difficult.

    I hope your case is as light as possible but it still gets harder.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  18. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    dl23 said:
    1. I even did some things to help out. I have been making sure no dishes stay in the sink and go into the dishwasher. I even put dinner away after W cooked tonight. Made me feel good to do it. I still took the bins out even though I thought about leaving it but I am better than that.

    2. Haha that wouldn't go well telling her to split household responsibilities. I mean fair is fair.

    3. I haven't been rung by mediation place for second stage screening call. Might need to ring them.

    4. Legal phonecall tomorrow night.

    A change in mind set will help you alot now...

    1. You are not "helping out" dl... you are taking responsibility. Hopefully you have been doing things like this your whole marriage. Not knowing how to operate the washing machine hit me like a brick lol. Becoming independent, replacing your codependency, moving forward will stand you in better stead for all those daily household tasks.

    2. I wasn't saying to tell W to split household chores. W is already setting her boundaries by NOT doing things for you.
    I was suggesting you set your boundaries of what you WILL do moving forward in this situation, for now.
    There's a universe of difference between telling someone what to do and setting boundaries.

    3. Won't make any difference how often you phone them (unless they've misplaced paperwork which is highly unlikely)... the process of Mediation in all states takes a very long time.... you're in a queue and not their only clients.
    As I said previously families are splitting up all over at a far higher number than before and ALL things Family Law are clogged on top.
    Mediation services were under pressure years ago. It took 3 months for my intake call here.

    4. Good luck with that call tonight. I hope you have your questions ready. Letting them lead you is NOT recommended, they'll repeat repeat repeat what you already know if you let them. LEADING them with what you need to know in YOUR specific case is best.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  19. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    3 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    I was still planning on sending that 8 point email. I still mean all of those things in that email but maybe I will hold off on it just to get Mr Paul's point of view. I hope he is okay. Would be good if we could chat via a messenger app. Anyways.

    I have been pulling my weight over the marriage. We still do some chores independently like I would take care of outside of house but I would still do dishes, vacuuming and cleaning up.

    Oh, I understand about the boundaries. Not doing certain chores as frequently.

    I may just call mediation to check but you are definitely probably right. We will be in a queue.

    I have to still write my questions down in my book. I will use the ones you wrote in here many posts ago. I'll make sure to ask all questions I need.

    Another day of work, trying to mask what I am feeling ro get through the day.

    Thanks

    dl23
    1 person found this helpful
  20. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Hi dl23

    Yes it would be wonderful to talk and text. Oh well, we have here.

    I was thinking of you at work today, remembering how almost impossible it was for me to concentrate during all that time. It's a true "mind challenge". When you have 2 seconds not thinking about "it", look at what you're doing that got you so engrossed that you forgot... then congratulate yourself. THEN repeat it as much as possible lol. You;ll learn how to expand this time and build on this newly learnt skill.

    About your 8 point email.... completely up to you.I liked the content. Follow your instincts. For me I didn't want to later regret NOT doing or saying or trying anything. It's very important to gauge Ws reactions. Not push, tell her what to do etc.

    Lol glad to hear you were doing housework in the marriage... cooking, cleaning, using the washing machine etc are IMO MORE important skills for your boys to learn than lawn mowing etc. And more complicated. Learning these help young adults become independent. I have lots of sons and a few daughters too! I want my present and future daughter in laws to love me lol, not hate me for not teaching my boys how to cook etc. All the kids can sew a button back on etc.

    If you need to have a good old cry then do this too. It's healthier than holding it in. Tears create a flow of endorphins or such and we need these to bounce back. A man who can cry when he's hurt is worth his weight in gold IMHO lol.

    Good luck with your legal call and sure call the Mediators too, why not.

    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  21. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    3 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thank you so much EM. It would be cool to chat like via WhatsApp.

    I had a good chat with my boss today who was in shock at it all. He was wondering why W wouldn't be willing to at least do counselling or even talk to me. I explained how she felt and that she said I was emotionally abusive but she never really said anything or tried to help fix it. I did suggest there may be something I am missing but he said I can't control that and to just keep doing the little things. He was also surprised as to me blaming myself for everything and also W blaming me. I said I could say something about marriage taking two people to make it work or not but I don't want to 'poke the bear'.

    My boss said keep doing what I am doing and even suggested to make her a hot drink even though she stopped doing it a week ago and I just followed suit. He said I wouldn't have anything to lose.

    I cried in front of her (mind you I may have been pleading) and W thought I was being creepy. I tried really hard to not tear up in front of my boss and I didn't.

    I am not sure what you meant by:

    For me I didn't want to later regret NOT doing or saying or trying anything. It's very important to gauge Ws reactions. Not push, tell her what to do etc.

    Questions written out in book for call. I never received a confirmation so I hope they haven't forgotten.

    Thanks

    dl23

    1 person found this helpful
  22. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    I'm glad you told your boss.

    I was drawn into your thread because of some bare similarities with my last marriage.

    I wondered at your first post, as I know Mr Paul has said, whether W is not indeed abusive.
    It's a very confusing time and your confusion at being blindsided was another red flag for me to hang in here with you.

    When you elude to 'not ever truly knowing W'.... indeed another red flag.

    Tbh I think I was stupid lol, there were reasons why I hung in and tried "everything" in a very horrid marriage (in hindsight ex was dragging things out at that stage to make my inheritance his). From the moment ex got control over my assets it was HELL. But it was far worse than this.

    The black and white reality of YOUR situation is that W made it blatantly clear that she's done. W refused to go to marriage counselling and that's another indication that she's TOTALLY done.

    I was the one who ended the bs here. I had asked for M Counselling for the first 10y but that was met with abuse. I gave up asking.

    Has W EVER asked for marriage counselling previous to her separation announcement?

    Anyway W has emotionally moved on. She appears to be attracted to images of men quite different to you, that kind of tells us where her attraction lays atm. Mr Paul, myself and you too do think there's more to the story but if someone is deceiving you, they will never tell the whole truth. They are far too concerned about their "reputation" to do so.

    EM

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  23. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    3 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    No W never asked for marriage counselling. She did ask me to go to counselling five or so years ago. I seem to always be at fault, in her eyes. I know I am no where perfect but I admitted my mistakes and recognised where I went wrong. If W had of asked for couples counselling to save our marriage and/or to make it stronger, I would've done without thinking.

    It's nauseating to think if something else has happened but I refuse to believe it.

    Thanks

    dl23
    2 people found this helpful
  24. ecomama
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    3 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Well I guess 5y ago is all water under the bridge now, but any thoughts that bug you or you find ruminating about (I'm not implying those do but others may IDK) are also ones to discuss with the psych at some point.

    I hope the call went well tonight.

    Take care
    EM

    1 person found this helpful
  25. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    4 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    So I didn't receive my call. I rang them back after a missed call earlier in the day to get background info before main call and I was told a lady would ring me. No call. Went somewhere quite and waited for booked time slot I made weeks ago and no call. I realised I had blocked unknown numbers setting on my phone on and there were calls from private numbers.

    Will ring tomorrow to reschedule. Was waiting weeks for that call.

    So made W a hot drink and put it in lounge room for her. Pretty sure she tipped it out and remade her own drink then hid her cup so I couldn't make her second drink later on.

    Do I send the 8 point email? Everything I do is hopeless.

    Thanks

    dl23
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  26. ecomama
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    4 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Good morning dl

    I had similar frustrations with call backs from such too. It's a wrangle for sure.

    Have a think about what the dl in 5y would say to you to do and think now....

    If you expected ANY change in W from your 8 point email, I think you'll be bitterly disappointed.

    W has not only made herself extremely clear that she wants out of the relationship, she's also made major statements like you sleeping in another room, selling the house asap, demands upon you for your money - disregarding the effects it's having on you - and now little things like not washing your clothes and hiding her cup.

    When I did "same", I was DONE. I was nicer than W is to you but I did very similar things.

    It made me sick to my stomach if ex came within 2 metres of me. I had a 2m personal space rule. STAY OUT of it. ex breached this for years, even after we got it out, even during the Court process, and I was repulsed.

    You can send the email if you want to, but it would best if you didn't expect a "nicer W" out of it.
    In fact it could provoke a worse reaction IDK.

    When you said "Everything I do is hopeless", was it meant in your attempts to woo W back?

    EM

    2 people found this helpful
  27. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    4 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Thanks for the reply EM.

    I don't know what to expect anymore, especially from the email I want to send. People just can't spend time in a house and not talk. I don't even feel like emailing her back anymore. I feel like I have to this week due to an upcoming bday for youngest son but if I see it's got nothing to do with his bday, I will ignore it.

    All I want is at least general talk. It is so frustrating how it is right now.

    I am not trying to woo her back. I know it is done. But surely we can at least talk to each other. I am trying to be nice everytime she emails. I still do my main chores (which I may just stop doing suddenly) and I do little things around the house.

    I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel so lost and sick.

    Thanks

    dl23
    2 people found this helpful
  28. ecomama
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    4 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Good afternoon dl23

    I'm sorry you're feeling lost and sick, it's a very confusing time, please try to do things that care for yourself.

    This may sound excessive and might not help you but during this time, I showered in the morning and afternoon. I went swimming alot... I imagined the water cleansing my thoughts and used lots of nice smelling things in the shower.
    No matter what, doing this made me feel a whole lot better.
    I'd better say right now that during the separation under one roof, I was not seeking legal advice at all. Trying to work out my head ofcourse... look after the kids in a 'separated way', work, move stories from upstairs to downstairs etc.

    So even though many things are similar, many others are way different also.

    What you say you want is not unreasonable to a reasonable person ie to be able to talk to W.
    But what I understand is happening is 'coercive control' from W.
    Some people call it being 'passive aggressive'. I prefer the former description as more apt.

    The more uncomfortable W can make life for you under one roof, then the sooner W thinks she'll have her way.... sell and be out for good. (Sure she feeds you kibbles when it suits her, this is much like training a dog and is disgusting human behaviour but narcissists do it as a way of controlling another human). You may be experiencing the effects of 'narcissistic discard' which is horrible form of abuse. You can Google it and see if it feels like that.

    If you can get your head around THIS stuff then your 180 may be more firm.
    And you will pretty much not care what W does or doesn't do.

    Getting to a place where you feel "meh" about W and the situation is the goal ie to feel nothing. Not love. Not hate. Nothing.

    If you keep hoping for any thing from W, EVEN a conversation or hot drink or her to do your washing or anything.... nup, you still have expectations so you will still be hurt.

    W cannot control YOU but you can also not control W.

    I think the 8 point email content would have been better said a LONG time ago.
    I think W will see it as coercion because W IS BEING COERCIVE.
    If this is Ws only modus operandii then they "project" ie they think THEIR way is the only way so you must be doing that to manipulate her. In a way it's true. you want to manipulate her into talking with you at least and W will see this and react I predict by her past behaviours.

    "We judge other people's actions by our own intentions" is what Stephen Covey says and it's so true.

    EM

    2 people found this helpful
  29. dl23
    dl23 avatar
    328 posts
    4 August 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi EM

    It's sad to think all those times I was trying to fix thingsI was being told I was manipulating her. I even explained myself that it was not my intention to do that at all. Makes sense when you said "Their way is the only way so you must be doing something to manipulate her". But W will not and cannot recognise what she is doing and the behaviours she is offloading.

    It really does wear on you. I just need to focus on the positives - lots of cuddles with the boys, weekend sport until it ends, footy matches to go to, chatting with my best mate on messenger and over this weekend.

    It's a shame I didn't send the 8 point email earlier. Horse has bolted.

    I need to stop worrying and frankly stop caring about all of this. It's making me so tired my eyes burn and my stomach churn.

    So got a reschedule on the phonecall for next week. Hopefully it goes through this time.

    In time I will read up on your italics (have done on earlier posts) but I am fatigued.

    I hope Mr Paul is doing okay.

    Thanks

    dl23
    2 people found this helpful
  30. ecomama
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    1634 posts
    4 August 2020 in reply to dl23

    Hi dl

    Yes I hope Mr Paul is doing okay too.

    Alot of what you're talking about, Ws behaviours, even maybe your reactions are spoken about in the book "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck. A manipulative person right through to those with personality disorders like NPD etc, I think, CAN'T think that others are any different to them. They simply don't have the capacity to know people have differing motivations to them. It's so weird lol! (My bf and I have come to the conclusion that some people can pretend very well indeed to love someone, but they don't have the capacity to love as we know it). All types of "love" are mentioned in this book.

    A great book to help you establish a "new" family unit with you and the boys later is "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families" by Stephen Covey. It's beautiful. It can help you through the tough times and keep bonds growing in strength and individuals grow in capacity.

    If you find it difficult to get to sleep at night I highly recommend Dr Joe Dispenza's meditations on YouTube.

    I really want you to watch "The Call to Courage" by Brene Brown on Netflix BECAUSE she speaks of so much you need to know right now. The feelings your vacillating between being vulnerability and courage. (Plus W is trying to shame you too). This special will make sense (I've watched it about 20 x lol!). She also has lots of chats on YouTube which are so incredibly interesting. I'm planning to buy her first and last book to begin with "Daring Greatly" and "Braving the Wilderness".

    There's more lol, I'm just warming up! later maybe.

    Over time as the "fog clears" you'll understand more about Ws behaviours now & previously, and even if you're not correct, you'll get more closure. Our brain needs this story to move on. You can make up your own story for your own brain and that can be it.

    You're right, the positives are REALLY important to focus on. SQUEEZE those cuddles and hold on the longest lol.

    The sadness of having W "missing" at places you go to may last a while but it leaves. It does.

    I hope you can expand upon moments of peace.

    EM

    2 people found this helpful

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