Topic: Wife has new male best friend

I am hoping someone out there can give me their unbiased opinion. This may or may not help me from going out of my mind.
To begin with, i have been married since 2009, my wife and I have always been on separate ends of the 'emotional spectrum. She tends to me highly emotional whereas i am on the complete opposite end. Despite the differences we have made it work well and kind of balance each other out. However, from time to time it does create some tension.
Over the past couple of years my wife has attended a personal training group, which is great, she has always suffered from social anxiety so to see her enjoy being around a new group of people and to witness the improvement of her mental health has been fantastic.
However it did not take long until she started spending time with a male friend from this group. As well as group sessions, they meet on non group days and train together alone for up to 3-4 hour sessions. This usually includes lunch, coffee, etc. So they end up seeing each other everyday whether in a group or not. This also includes texts and phone calls throughout the day.
I have questioned her about this. and have told her i am uncomfortable with the frequency, not necessarily the fact she has a male best friend.
She has told me that they do have feeling for each other, they have discussed this in detail and have vowed not to act on it. They recognise that it is natural that and two people spending this amount of time with each other are bound to develop feelings, however its whether they act on it or not that counts. This doesn't sit right with me. Just because you have recognised it, and have been open with me about it doesn't make it right or less hurtful.
This male friend has the emotional personality traits that i dont have, so it makes sense that she is attracted to him and wants to spend so much time with him.
But where does this leave me? I cant help feeling she would rather be with him than me? why wouldn't she, right?
Is she better off with him?
I dont want to stop the friendship, 1. due to the improvement in her mental health, 2. why should i? if my discomfort isnt enough, shouldnt she recognise the problem a pull back?
over the past 6 months this has put me in a depressed state, and if anything it has put more distance between my wife and I. I cant help feeling that without this guy out of the picture, we can not repair our marriage. I am seriously considering leaving her.

Hi, welcome

Thankyou for a well written post.

I read: "shouldnt she recognise the problem a pull back?" I would absolutely expect that in the least- the reason? Both confirmed they have "feeling for each other" so promises go out the window when temptation comes around especially when one throws in some time alone eg opportunity with the ideal surroundings. A statement of "vowed not to act on it" raises red flags.

This is not imo a case of a pure friendship. Eg I'm a type of guy that has many more females than males for close friends. I suppose I'm more on the emotional spectrum level with women, my wife knows this well though and accepts it. The moment (if it happened) that one took my friendship the wrong way, well she'd be the first to know and I'd have to review that friendship, not allow it to continue in the same way.

You might remember that your feelings has as much importance as your wife's feelings. That means she has a responsibility to acknowledge and act upon your hurt and concerns in the least stop the daily rendezvous of which is that alone time mentioned. If you left the marriage I'd suggest their relationship might flourish.

Her mental health is a concern. There is many conventional ways in which to repair/improve that. Hobbies, sports, special interests...

"I cant help feeling that without this guy out of the picture, we can not repair our marriage" That's an acknowledgement that you know your marriage is breaking down. Then I suggest you seek out Relationships Australia on 1300 364 277. If she wont attend sessions then I'd suggest going alone if anything to help you cope or any counselor you decide.

If it means anything I couldnt allow this situation to continue, but I suppose some would. Be interesting of others replies here.

Whatever the outcome I would like to think you'll look after yourself and return here either continuously by posting updates or when and if required.

TonyWK

Thanks very much for your insight, it is very helpful.

I guess my wife mental health is a complication (for lack of a better term)she is diagnosed with depression and OCD. If i make her feel to guilty by talking openly, she spirals into severe depression and self hate. So i always have to be careful what i say. I have been very direct before but end up having to council my wife out of it. This is why i naturally put her feelings first. Even it that means me being unhappy or depressed.

No, it is not 'natural' to develop feelings just by 'spending time' together... unless that time involves sexually provocative contact mutually acceptable to both parties.
Vowing 'not to act' can be misinterpreted as avoiding emotional & physical intimacy (as I suspect you would favour), or rather not to extend into more formal endeavours (such as separation to form a new relationship) - an affair for all intents, given the regular (and private) meetings and communications.

With this established, the question is whether or not you condone the arrangement - you mentioned wanting to remain 'friends', which suggests you accept the relegated role at least. This must be up to you to assess if it is workable for your own emotional stability, to become the cuckold, in fact.

I suspect your wife has the dominance over your relationship and feels she can do as she pleases whether under the guise of depression or just cunning manipulation of your marriage.

Either way, you are being disrespected and taking steps to restore the balance may be in your best interests even it this brings matters to a head, allowing you to move on with some dignity.

While your wife's mental health issues are indeed a concern, living your life walking on eggs shells for you would be arduous and, in the end, intolerable depending on your endurance. Certainly wouldn't help matters.

I started a thread here called "HSP highly sensitive people". It is one I answered today so it should be on the first pages of topic, worth reading those posts.

Another post that might assist you both is(google)

Beyondblue relationship strife the peace pipe . Just read the first post.. a handy technique if you fall into a dispute.

Reply anytime

TonyWK

Hi JM2020,

I can imagine how distressing it must have been for you to hear that they do have feeling for each other, and have even discussed this in detail. If they recognise that it is natural that and two people spending this amount of time with each other are bound to develop feelings, then have they agreed to not spend so much time together????

It sounds to me as though your wife is having at the very least an emotional affair. She doesn’t feel as though her emotional needs are being met in the relationship and is using this other man to provide the emotional intimacy that she desires. The problem is when someone has an emotional affair, rather than turn inward and allow their partner the opportunity to meet their needs, they instead turn outward, thereby depriving you of the opportunity to resolve the issue. The new “relationship” obviously causes friction in your relationship, she then leans on this person more and more and this provides them with the opportunity to show how caring and considerate they are to her needs while you just make her upset. Despite being perfectly justified in feeling angry at another man being present in your relationship. Sometimes the partner having the affair will have a wake up call and realise that they don’t want to lose their partner. Or they get to know this new person enough and things then physical and they decide to leave. Do you think you’d be able to get her to couples counseling at the moment??

Hello JM2020, all the replies above have been very good.

The problem is when you and your wife need to sort out a situation or discuss what's going to happen in other matters, which is not about this arrangement, then her first thought is wondering what this other chap would be thinking, the same as what she has decided or if it's different then how to approach this topic and that's the problem, she's talking to herself as if she's with him and not you.

A close emotional relationship with someone else could have the tendency to develop into a physical one, and once this does happen or become very close, then to regain your marriage will not be easy, because her mind will continually be on him and not you, her husband.

If the contact between the two of them happens every day, after lunch, coffee and/or training then it's become too close and needs to end if that's possible.

It's not going to be easy and I feel for you.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

Hi JM2020

My husband has been doing the same thing with his ex girlfriend. They recently caught up to chat, several times a week, without telling me. Apparently they declared at the beginning that it would not be any further than talk. I found out and he admitted it as "special relationship" but not an affair (because there was nothing physical). But this special relationship involves using Signal app, buying a set of matching his and her pyjama (his excuse was they used to have matching clothing when they were going out). He even called me her name when we were arguing over this,

He said they have ended it now and there would be no more contact.

He is expecting me to accept as special relationship. He agreed that he stepped over the line.

I am seeking counselling myself to confirm that I am not overthinking/paranoid/making unreasonable assumption.

I would suggest you seek counselling yourself first to sort out your emotion (of course your wife is important but you are the most important one). Can't move on without being in the right headspace.

Yes this is the issue, 'if it is not physical, its not cheating 'for me it is very strange because my wife is an extremely compassionate introvert, so not dominant at all. it is out of character. I have calculated that since Saturday morning, they have seen each other for 15 hours, training, lunch, shopping. Only as friends of course. I explain to her that everyone has friends, but no one see's their friends that much. I will support any friendship she has, but this one has gone too far. It seems either she stop seeing him and be miserable, or it continues and i be miserable. Either way no one wins.

I dont think you are being paranoid, but i can understand why you would think so, i do the same. Like myself, you should not have been put in this position in the first place. Where is that voice inside his/her head that says 'THIS IS NOT RIGHT'. Why should you have to do the counselling? your thoughts are rational.

Hi JM and Jozel

This topic is very interesting. How do you find clarity and define what's "right", when you are dealing with another person that is displaying extreme ideals compared to you? I believe I have the answer.

A while ago I wrote a post google beyondblue the definition of abuse. I came to a similar conclusion as this situation.

With abuse there is so many varieties and levels. My ex partner when drunk would slap my face. We discussed it with our GP. He said "you're a big lad, you can take it". It proved to me that what is abuse and unacceptable to one might be allowable to another.

So what is abuse? The victims level of unacceptable behaviour on him or her is abuse! let's take that to extremes. In a workplace if someone called me a name say "fatso" and I took offence. At a lunch room people debated. Say out of 100 staff, 50 think I'm over reacting out of which 40 are slim, 40 think I'm revengeful but don't know of any prior incident so they're guessing which isn't fair, the rest are sympathetic. As we are all different no one at the factory would know of the bullying I suffered as a overweight kid, nor my lifelong unsuccessful dieting.

Now there is some level of flexibility that is required after the first abusive event as the bully might be unaware of such sensitivity and so on. The same when you first give your spouse an opportunity to reverse that friendship.

In these cases of a spouse taking a friendship too far outside the marriage, what degree of friendship would be acceptable? IMO it's the same- your level of acceptance is the degree of permission. Another extreme- if a couple had an open marriage (sexualising relations acceptable) then you wouldn't be posting here.

A couple enter into a contract of marriage (or defacto/bf gf) and such vows/pledges are solely centred on their partners individual needs whatever they be, not the collective average of what is generally allowed. This "quirkiness" is in all of us to some degree.

Moving on, if such behaviour continues with the displeasure and protest of the complainant then the partner has violated the contract. In such cases, a verbal warning and subsequent agreement should suffice. Any further warnings needed merely confirms the strength of that unwanted relationship. At that point it's rare to rescue what you once had.

TonyWK

Update* rightly or wrongly i snooped on my wifes phone. I just couldnt take it any longer. I needed to know.

I found many flirting texts.

examples like: wife- do you want to come over? (maybe in another life) Him- saying he would love too and he would even buy me flowers.

example: Wife: hows life? him: better with you in it (wink), wife- thats the best thing ive ever heard.

Should i confront her and tell her?

I'm shaking!

Thats a hard question and kind of goes away from our charter IMO.

So, if that happened to me what would I do? (rather than (giving you advice on what to do, there's a difference).

I would actually give her once chance. The reason is simple- she could never say "you didnt give me a chance to explain".

I would be resolute- if she didnt display an attitude of devastation after I tell her we are splitting up, then following the conversation I would ask her to leave. I'd prefer to remain in the home as I've not violated the marriage.

PS did you read my last post?

TonyWK

Yes i did thank you.

I have confronted her to give her an opportunity, apparently they have been hugging and holding hands during their walks.

She blames me for not being able to satisfy her emotionally, enough.

She wont say she has cheated and refuses to admit emotionally cheating. She says, 'i dont think im cheating'

Hi JM2020,

I'm so sorry that you are in this situation right now and it is causing you distress and creating a dilemma as to what you should do. I tend to go through the likely scenarios of what will happen if 'you do or don't' confront her. What's the likely outcomes, best and worst, and how are you likely to be situated with those outcomes. Are they better or worse than how you are feeling right now. Clearly, the current situation is driving you to distraction, which she must be aware of and is not really addressing. It sounds like she is having an emotional affair at the very least and this isn't fair to you. Forgive my question if you have already addressed this here but have you suggested 'couples counselling' to her?

Best wishes.

WF

thanks for your reply. i often think about counselling, however i also think, 'if she want to go, let her' if they want to be together, let them. The only reason i would consider counselling at this point is because of the kids.

It is safe to say she wont stop seeing him. If she is happier with him who am i to hold her back.

good post Waterfront

It's amusing to read that she blames you for not being able to satisfy her emotionally enough. I think if that was the case, she chose you wrongly in the first place. There is little personal responsibility nowadays. She doesnt think "she is cheating". mmm

Sorry JM. You have a life battle ahead. I hope you remember life is what you make it. After the dust settles, life will be good. I proved that.

TonyWK

thanks very much. yeah is my fault for pushing her away....... apparently that makes it ok.

Hi JM,

I'm really glad that you've taken the time to open up on here. From what you've written you're going through a really hard time right now and have been in a depressed state for a while because of everything that has gone on..

I've read through this thread. I hope you're coming to slowly realise that your mental and emotional health should be number 1 for you. Based on the actions of your wife, she's putting her selfish needs first without regard for you and your marriage, and a manipulator will try to make you feel that it's your fault. You never made her do what she did, and what she did was plain wrong, regardless of the reasons and justifications she may had. She's created damage that will leave a very big scar.. I think in times like this you really have to focus on the actions themselves, not the reasons/feelings/intentions behind them - actions speak way louder.

You didn't deserve what happened and her decisions to betray you.. You will come to accept that your own qualities and you as a person aren't to blame for her hurting you. I can see that naturally your mind is at the place where you're taking responsibility for her seeking out emotional fulfilment from another man.. She vowed and made a commitment to you and your family and wilfully broke that.

I don't know much about how you both are as a couple.. But perhaps it could be fair to say that you've put her before yourself for a very long time. I'm curious, have you told anyone else in your life about what has been going on and how it's been affecting you? Do you believe your wife understands, or is willing to understand the scars that this has left on you?

I hope you're taking care of yourself as best as you can. You will come out of this a better and stronger person who realises what they truly deserve, and myself and everyone here I'm sure are so proud of you for taking the step to acknowledge that what happened has deeply hurt you. My gut tells me that this has been buried in you for quite a long time.

<3<3<3

Your wife believes she is justified in 'outsourcing' the emotional deficit to fulfil her emotional needs. In her mind at least, this is not perceived as cheating - purely 'supplemental'... yet quite selfishly oriented, seemingly goading you with taunts of your failing to uphold this aspect of the marital vows; and without shame or remorse - there has been no secrecy from the outset which, on the surface, can appear as openness, but could equally represent a level of contempt for your feelings (to the point of retribution) even if her claims are warranted.

Egging her on in the romantic/emotional/sexual dalliance is the tantalising awareness of your suffering or simply a challenge for you to step up or step out.
You mentioned "Despite the differences we have made it work well and kind of balance each other out" which may infer that while you have found an acceptable compromise for yourself, your wife has become progressively more dissatisfied in the relationship.

I wouldn't go so far as to assign blame as there are contributory factors on both sides, but desperate times call for desperate measures and your wife has made a pointed statement in her actions where effective communication has broken down.

As opposed to confronting your wife (or anyone), I would encourage you to meet and talk with the third party - if this is all above board, then there would be no hesitancy or misgivings, right? The encounter may alleviate fears or confirm them, but at least you will have a clearer picture and begin to plan for your future.

Staying objective and not reacting could be your best defense in this case.

Sorry to continually post here but i need to vent.

over the past 24 hours we went from 'i dont think we have been flirting' to 'we've kissed on several occassions' do you believe it??

and yet she keeps justifying her actions by giving example of when i may not have been exactly supportive. In her defence there have been cases when i haven't been the best husband, but its been 20 years.

She still doesnt know i have her text messages. The texts let on more than she is willing to disclose. That these kisses where no simply moments of weakness, rather they sought each other out almost everyday with suggestive texts.

this has blown up now, beyond what i even suspected. all i think about now is our kids and how to handle this tactfully enough.

he is also married with kids

The old saying "where there's smoke there's fire" comes to mind. Sorry, in these situations her admission of kissing is likely not the full story.

The now modern way is to gaslight or in the least point and blame causing the guilt ridden or doubtful persons to rethink their own behaviour.

Had that last week. Walking my little dog on a lead, larger dog unrestrained attacks, owner appears and blames me for walking my dog past her house. The mind boggles!. Being a former dog ranger I know the law on unconfined dogs. But even if issued a fine or friends tell the guilty they are wrong they stick to their blaming game It illustrates the trend.

Rest assured your wife actions is cheating regardless of her denials. Keep focussing on your future plans. How old are your children?

My working life involved investigations into infidelity. A huge industry boosted by individuals needing concrete evidence for peace of mind when they walked out the door.

TonyWK

Hi JM2020,

I’m sorry this has happening to you, and I’m also sorry that your wife is denying and minimizing her behaviour in all of this. I know how infuriating and hurtful that is. But at the very least, now you know. You know that your wife is lying to you, has kissed this man and held hands, and seems to be intent on continuing her behavior. She doesn’t want to make an admission of guilt because then she will be forced to stop. She is trying to gaslight you and deflect blame so that she can continue on with things and make herself feel better. But the situation is pretty black and white, not only has she been having an emotional affair but it’s now turned physical. Whether she has slept with him yet I don’t know but it seems fairly inevitable at this point. She will try and have her cake and eat it too by stringing you along for a bit longer while she dissed out whether there is a future with this man as she won’t want to take a gamble only to have the new relationship fail. But If it was me, that is exactly what I’d be doing. Putting her stuff out on the lawn and encouraging her to go and stay with the new guy. I imagine that the shine would wear off pretty quickly, part of the appeal of an affair is that there is no real big commitment on either side. But the reality of someone turning up on your doorstep has a way of making reality come crashing down. However, you have children so that is obviously a factor, although it doesn’t seem to have been a factor in your wife’s decision-making process.

Hey, vent away, but be sure to keep a clear head. Sometimes what you are led to believe is intentional - is it unusual that your wife leaves her phone lying around, unlocked? Is what she says actually what she does, or merely taunting you to play on your suspicions?

You might want to don your own sleuth cap and see first hand her 'training' sessions before drawing conclusions. Observe without bias and collate your data - knowledge is power and it will help you to hone your thoughts without becoming rattled in emotional turmoil.
Presently, the evidence is circumstantial, bordering on hearsay (although self incriminating).

What is her motive - to find gratification or to draw a response? What outcome is she expecting from being so forthcoming? - to teach you a lesson, to demean your place in the relationship, to cause mental anguish? Maybe she wants you to instigate proceedings in separation, or lead you into error - to what end? Perhaps you should just come out and ask where she wants this to go and act accordingly.
Think as she does, read between the lines, and consider all angles. There is still much to be determined and validated.

Hello JM and All, ' your wife actions is cheating' as Tony has said, with a friend, sure you can hug and kiss that's what I do with my female friends but I certainly don't go walking holding hands, that's being way too personal and they would probably object and say no, that's what I would expect and sure I may have a cup of coffee with them, but not every day, not unless it's at my house or their house and their spouse knew about it, but to hug, kiss, hold hands somewhere nobody knows about leads to the temptation of having a physical relationship.

One thing we have to remember is the disruption to his family and doing this is causing great hardship to 2 marriages.

I've always said children are happier in 2 two different relationships with their parents separating, rather than one unhappy family, I'm actually seeing this in a close r'lationship between and in particular a relative.

The questions and answers can never be told in all honesty and what you are told, can you believe what's being said no and possibly in another time.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

Thanks for your support Geoff. At this point the kids are my only concern. In fact we have done really well to hide this from them, so the poor things are oblivious. This kind of makes things harder.

His wife has no idea. I said i was going to track her down to tell her, my wife thinks its unnecessary. I said if you think what you did is not cheating (because we had problems anyway), what he did is certainly cheating. I think she has made out our marriage to be worse than what it was, simply to justify her actions.

I have told her i want out. To be honest i just want to move on to a new future. Just need to shake off the hurt and anger.

Kissing another man is not acceptable, this is on top of deliberate act to make arrangements to catch up severel a week. Those times could have been times with you or your kids. It is absolutely ok for an individual to have away time/life from home but not to the degree what you are describing.

She needs to be honest with you until everything she is telling you is matching up with your hard evidence (not your imagination). You won't be able to start to heal until such time. Confrontation and grilling session to get the truth out to match with what you know is hurtful. Each time that she is not saying the truth or omitting something, it is reinforcing the lack of honesty of your relationship with her.

Hi JM

A few of my experiences post separation that I'd like to share-

• My childrens school principle told me "children are more resilient that us adults, they adapt quicker"
• A friend told me "once you have separated they'll come a moment when you realise- its the beginning not the end"
• Karma- It came to my ex GF when she said "well then, you'll have to find a place to live" (as a threat)..."I have, its around the corner can you help me shift"?
• "Perhaps we can remain friends". The foundation of friendship needs much more than what we had"

I was married also to the mother of my kids. For 11 years she used silence as a weapon and laziness put more pressure on me. When I left the family home I was extremely upset until I reached the end of the street....I then burst into laughter- she didnt "win". One week prior to that moment I tried ending my life.

My daughter now 33yo has a saying "stay true to yourself. I had to figure that one out. She's right, there is a life out there for you JM and it doesnt include your wife. You simply deserve better.

TonyWK

Some things to remember...
Regardless of outcomes, your wife will always be the mother of your children who, by the way, are probably more perceptive than you give them credit - veritable emotional sponges who often internalise their distress as being their own issues (if anything, they have done well to hide this from you).
Moving on is fine, but the relationship doesn't end:
the interests and welfare of your children (teens/tweens?), their maintenance, custody, and civility in your dealings - this is a mutual obligation until they are adults (after which it becomes discretionary, but recommended in order to find acceptance). In fact, you will be entering into a new partnership and need to remove any personal indignation and irrational thoughts/behaviours which will not aid your cause or mental health if left unresolved.
Be wary of becoming embroiled in 'he said/she said' and stick to the facts once your mind is made up.

Hi Tranzcrybe

I think that is a very valid point. If he separates its going to be difficult but doable to try to put all this behind him and respect just her motherhood.

Unfortunately I had the opposite happen upon my separation from the mother of my then two young daughters and this opposite result to the above only developed due to the poor attitude (immature) of my then estranged wife. Some say "it takes two", well prior to separation maybe in some cases but post separation it only takes one poor grudge holding attitude to ruin all effort to maintain communication for the sake of the children.

Thankfully courts now treat dads equally to mums, it wasnt the case in the 1990's when I separated. Sadly requests to meet at a cafe to discuss our children would leave me "stood up" having driven a long distance then a phone call "I chose not to attend" was the response. Decency to let me know was beyond her.

I'm only mentioning this because it does only take one parent to decide not to remain cordial.

TonyWK

Hi JM2020,

This is the place to vent if you need to and there is no need to apologise for that. It can also help you to clarify your thoughts and get some thoughts and ideas from the perspective of others, some of whom have been through similar experiences. As tranzcrybe says, 'vent away' - it might actually help you to clear your thoughts. From reading through the tread I can't help feeling that your wife might be almost pushing you to act, maybe so she can mitigate her responsibility which she is refusing to admit or accept. Or for some other reason.

If it were me, I would be taking a few very deep breaths and asking myself what I want to happen and then acting accordingly. For example, if you do separate - who should leave the family home, who should have the children until it is decided in the short term, that sort of thing. Have a plan for what you want or are willing to accept. You might not be there yet. Also, can it be saved? Do you want to save it? Would she be willing to try? I would have a really good think about all of these things before I did anything.

We are all different, and you are in the situation, so only you can make these judgements.

I hope this is of some help.

WF